Boolit Weight for 308 Winchester...

[BCB]

A bit of an update, as I CERTAINLY HAVE NOT ABANDONED this thread. Been reading here and looking at all the groups I have shot so far and comparing and everything else that goes with this “dang” hobby! Many many variables as we know…

To date, I have tried 4 different boolit designs, with another 2, maybe 3 in the future. I have used 14 different powders…

With the boolits I cast, I could be “free-wheeling” and shoot as many as I pleased. The 311041 that I use in all my 30-30 Winchesters with WC-860 or WC-852, is sort of O.K. in the 308 using IMR-7383, yet it can be a bit erratic at times. It is the one that I have accepted as best for that boolit—but it is not a “beer can killer” at 150 yards by any stretch of the imagination. With the donation of the boolits a member of this site sent me, I had to do some thinking and use them wisely. With the 311299 (sized 0.311”) he sent me, I have fired a dozen 3-shot groups. I picked the best 2 groups at 50 yards (that is where I started the group process) and then fired them at 100 yards. Now I am down to one group at 100 yards that shows some pretty good promise. I have saved 8 boolits to do my final testing of the 311299. So far, IMR-4227 is the winner—I must say I am a bit surprised…

I am glad I purchased the QuickLoad program some time back as it includes another program called QuickTarget. With the known impact of the boolits at 50 yards, I can have it calculate where impact might be at 100 yards. That way I don’t have to fire a round for effect to see if I am even on the paper. That saves me a “precious” boolit from the donors! So far, the program has kept me on the paper at 100 yards when P.O.I. is known at 50 yards and velocities are calculated by QuickLoad—even though they may not be completely correct they are 8.5”x11” of paper correct at 100 yards. I can fire a 3-shot group and not have to waste a boolit…

I am now working with the RCBS 30-180-SP (sized 0.311”) the donor also sent me. I have only fired 3 different groups with it. So I am yet certain of what powder might be the “magic bullet” so to speak. SR-4759 put 3 into a bit less than 0.6” so it might be a contender…

I was hoping for 75% one-inch groups at 100 yards with this Encore, but that may be too much to expect—or at least now it seems…

I must say that this has been a “bad dream”. It hasn’t reached the nightmare stage yet, but who knows!...

There is no doubt that the barrel on this Encore is over-sized as some of the bore riders will fall into the muzzle end. They will also enter the end of a 30-30 Contender, but it does take very minimal push to get it there. So, there is some resistance. Interesting, an old Marlin 336’s muzzle won’t even let the bore rider enter—must be a dang tight bore—a pretty good shooter for me and open sights…

So that’s the way it is today. Hopefully something will be found that will work as I hope. If not, the entire firearm might need sent back to T/C…S&W—this I dread and hope doesn’t happen…

Thanks all…

BCB

[charlie b]

There is a thread in here somewhere of my cast bullet exploration with my .308 Savage, also a 10 twist.

Bullets I've tried:

These two were bullets purchased from Montana Bullet Works. They are a great resource. If they have a mold you are interesting in you can buy some bullets to test them in your rifle.
311299 Very good and the nose on this one was a tight fit in my bore. Did not shoot past 100yd.
165SIL Very good and also a decent fit on the nose. Did not shoot past 100yd.

Lee C310-180 Did a lot of shooting with this one. At first pan lubed and sized. The nose was a bit small so I did two things. Lapped the mold a bit and went to powder coating. Accuracy improved a lot. I also tested a lot of PC techniques with this bullet.

Acc 31-210E an Eagan MX3 at 210gn instead of 230gn. This one was purchased for powder coating so the nose is a bit undersized. I PC then nose size and base size this one. It has served me well and is accurate out to 500yd (1.5MOA). I've probably 4-5000rnds with this bullet.

NOE 165 XCB. This one has a few issues with my throat. Originally I just seated it deep (GC below the neck). Now I use a tapered nose size bushing and it fits my chamber well now. Since I got a lubesizer this bullet has become my go to choice. Is just as accurate as the 210gn bullet but is easier to make. Lately I've discovered that the bullet shape allows it to go through the transonic without much disturbance so 600yd shooting is doable at a MV of 1850fps.

One I'd like to try is the Lee 6 cavity 312-155 2R bullet. I'd size it same as the XCB.

The one thing I've tried that did not work is the NOE 310-172. It has just not given me decent accuracy. Don't know why.

[charlie b]

Forgot two things. I do not hunt, only bench shooting. The best groups I have had were with bullets jammed into the rifling. And with bore riders the bore section is a tight fit to the bore. This does mean it takes a bit of extra push on the bolt to chamber.

If I need to remove a round from the chamber it is an issue. Usually takes a pretty sharp rap on the bolt handle to get the round extracted. Sometimes the bullet stays in the rifle. Then a range rod in from the muzzle is used to remove the bullet. I would not do this with a hunting rifle and some might not like this with a bench gun.

[schutzen-jager]

for all around use i find the 160 gr cast, gas checked to does all i want in both my Remington 788 +FR8 - 788 shoots clover leaf's at 100 yds with a front rest -

[Larry Gibson]

For the best accuracy in my 308Ws, 30x57 and 30-06s I prefer the NOE 310-165-FN "30 XCB". I have shot MOA - 1.5 MOA 10 shot groups with it out to 600 yards. From subsonic to 2900+ fps I've not found a better 30 cal bullet for accuracy.

For hunting game I prefer the Lyman 311041 in either solid or HP'd form. My single cavity HP mould with the HP stem shortened produces bullets at 178 gr fully dressed when cast of COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. Terminal performance on many game animals has always been excellent when driven at 1900 - 2300 fps out of 308Ws. Never found a need for any heavier of a bullet for game.

For vermin and plinking I use either the TL314-90-SWC [lubed and sized at .314 then sized down to .311] loaded to 800 - 900 fps or the GC'd 311316 loaded to 1600 fps +?_.

[country gent]

I have worked with the 155 sierra palma bullet, 168 HPBT both sierra and hornady, 175 sierra. All worked good in the 1-10 twist in my service rifles.I normally competed from 200 yds to 1000yds. This was with a NM rear lugged M1A krieger barrel. The 168s and 175s always seemed to perform a little better over the day. The recoil of the heavier bullets could become an issue for some over a 88 round match

One overlooked bullet thats becoming scarcer now is the 173 grn from special ball. This bullet performed very good for me

I know several that played with the 125-135 grn at 200 yds but I didnt see a lot of advantage to them.

My loads for the 168s duplicated M852 match ammo and they performed great out to 600yds.

The other thing to keep in mind is the original 168 international sierra bullet was meant as a 300 yd match bullet.

Its hard to keep the 168s supersonic to 1000 yds the 155 was lighter and enough more velocity but was harder in wind. The 175s and 173s added weight got them there. And they seemed a little better in the wind.

[charlie b]

Yes, quite a few good .30 jacketed bullets but the OP asked about cast.

[brstevns]

Hard to beat the Lyman 311291

[Kraschenbirn]

Hard to beat the Lyman 311291

Yup!! In following this thread, I've been surprised that this classic Lyman design hasn't been mentioned earlier. I've got a 1970s-vintage M700 with an eroded throat that I was about to ship to JES for a rebore until I ran across a forgotten box of 311291s in the back of my storage cabinet. My first test load with those, seated out to almost contact the rifling, put 10 rounds into just under 1 1/4" (100 yds). A little juggling of powder charge and seating depth yielded just under MOA at 100 and just a bit over at 200. Bottom line: rather than rebore, I upgraded the scope and dedicated that old Remmy to "cast boolits only".

Bill

[RickinTN]

I have had great accuracy luck with the Saeco 175 grain bullet. I can't recall the number. From 30-30 to .308 to 30-06 it has shot very well.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Digger]

For the best accuracy in my 308Ws, 30x57 and 30-06s I prefer the NOE 310-165-FN "30 XCB". I have shot MOA - 1.5 MOA 10 shot groups with it out to 600 yards. From subsonic to 2900+ fps I've not found a better 30 cal bullet for accuracy.

For hunting game I prefer the Lyman 311041 in either solid or HP'd form. My single cavity HP mould with the HP stem shortened produces bullets at 178 gr fully dressed when cast of COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. Terminal performance on many game animals has always been excellent when driven at 1900 - 2300 fps out of 308Ws. Never found a need for any heavier of a bullet for game.

For vermin and plinking I use either the TL314-90-SWC [lubed and sized at .314 then sized down to .311] loaded to 800 - 900 fps or the GC'd 311316 loaded to 1600 fps +?_.

Wonder if it would be possible for NOE to size down the "30 XCB" enough for powder coating ...
He already produces a few for that application in the "HT" series ...
Might have to ask ? , since that particular boolet has that good rep.
I use one standard lube and it performs well , don't like the set back when I powder coat.

[charlie b]

You could ask.

I bought the .302 body size die and use it to size the nose of the XCB. It works for lubed and PC'd. The taper is almost perfect. It allows me to seat the bullet out quite a bit. You can adjust how far you push the bullet into the die, like other nose size dies to get the 'perfect' fit.

FWIW, when I PC I size, nose size, PC, then size both again. I think it gives better runout results.

[Digger]

You could ask.

I bought the .302 body size die and use it to size the nose of the XCB. It works for lubed and PC'd. The taper is almost perfect. It allows me to seat the bullet out quite a bit. You can adjust how far you push the bullet into the die, like other nose size dies to get the 'perfect' fit.

FWIW, when I PC I size, nose size, PC, then size both again. I think it gives better runout results.

Thank you much for the tip ..

[Super Sneaky Steve]

From my notes, please double check all loads.

Lee C309-170F. Actual weight is 176 with lube and a GC. 22.0gr of 5744 Velocity 1761. Energy 1211ft/lbs OAL 2.551"/0.20 Jump/ 2.005 Trim.

This out of a Rem 700 with a 20" barrel. I did shoot a doe with it and she didn't run very far. Accurate load.