Old take on shortages

[Alstep]

Isn't it strange that food isn't taxed (yet) but you pay sales tax on seeds, chicken feed, garden tools, etc to produce food???

Years ago a neighbor had a large garden and had so much extra vegetables, he filled a wheelbarrow and put it out near the road with a sign "free". Wouldn't you know somebody came by, dumped out the vegetables and took the wheelbarrow!

[Blanket]

Besides the Spam, what is processed in his listed food items?

just about all of it. Canned Vegetables, confinement raised pork, chicken. Egg farmed eggs. I guess if you have no taste all of it is ok with you

[waksupi]

Did the livestock and garden thing growing up. Then started gardening again about 20 years ago.

Not worth the effort. I have almost a year of food prepped. There is a market that has great deals and we stock up during sales: some recent examples...

Canned veggies.....$.19-.29 a can
Pork loin...$1.29/lb
Pork butt.....$.79/lb
Chicken quarters....$2.99 for 10 lb bag
Butter....$.99/lb
Tuna...$.25/can
Spam...$1.50/can
Porterhouses steak...$5.99/lb
Eggs...$.69/doz
Taco kits....$1

Growing stuff is not always less expensive and certainly not needed to be prepared for hard times.

Folks spend a lot of money eating out, and complain about not having money. If they are too lazy to cook, they are not going to raise food. On TV, I see folks in car lines waiting to get food driving $40-50k vehicles...that pisses me off.

I stopped giving to the church food bank when I saw what was going on.

I wish the prices were like that here!

[waksupi]

Years ago my Grandmother said they were always short on stove fuel, this was during the drought years in South Dakota. So she would use a pitchfork to flip over cow pies so they would dry faster, and gather them before the got stepped on and broken. I always remember that story when I get my propane tanks filled in July. There are seldom real shortages, just poor timing.

When we were kids, we would flip cow pies to get grub worms for fish bait!

[Markopolo]

I wish the prices were like that here!

and here... I use every available space to grow some sort of veggies or fruit!!! fresh is good... home made is good... processed is .. who knows cuz I didn't do it myself...

[dverna]

One of our good neighbors are poor. Typically two years behind on property taxes, drive on bald tires etc etc. They are great people and always have about a year of food put up for their "safety net". But they are not "smart" about it.

His wife insists on a garden and raising livestock. Just one example.....their chickens. They buy 50 meat chickens every year. Cost about $1.50 each IIRC, and they lose about 10% of the chicks in the first few weeks. They drive 80 miles round trip to buy "organic" feed every two weeks because they cannot afford to buy enough feed to last a month (mind boggling...I know). Then they pay about $3 ea to have them butchered. One year a pine martin got into the coop and decimated the flock. They have no idea what their chicken meat costs...but I figure about $1.50/lb. They shop at the same market we do (Freddie's in Atlanta MI), and chicken quarters are $.30-45/lb when on sale...no limits.

I asked them why they do it. His wife said they want to eat "organic". She smokes a pack a day, so I guess eating healthier is important. She has trouble walking and drives a riding lawn mower to get to the garden 40 yards from their house. We are all in our late 60's early 70's (well my finance is 57) so I doubt "eating organic" is going to matter much. But one of their "treats" is a bucket of KFC!

I had too much to drink one time and asked..."Let me understand this. You grow your own chickens at 3-4 times the cost of buying at Freddie's and then buy a bucket of KFC for $20? Did you get the organic bucket?" My fiancé nearly choked on her drink and I got "the look".

This same couple is putting up a green house this year....no common sense....spending time and money they do not have. How much can two old people eat?

Being prepared is not costly. Even poor people can put away a decent supply over time. Food is cheap...if you buy it right.

Growing stuff and raising livestock is a great learning experience, but not cost effective. If someone enjoys it as a hobby it works. I do not want to do things I do not enjoy doing unless I save money or have no choice.

It is like casting bullets. Some people love it and cast bullets for the satisfaction of the endeavor. If I could buy bullets for $30/1000 I would never cast again. The effort is not worth reward. But the skill set and equipment is priceless if the SHTF.

[rockrat]

Alstep----food is taxed around here, almost 9%.

[contender1]

My , like a few others,, was a Depression kid. My mom was a baby during it,, but grew up in a poor farming community.
Both were raised to be frugal, and resourceful. My Dad,, was actually very active in that arena. He didn't believe in any wasting of anything. He was in WWII and saw other countries,, & saw others also doing without.
As such,, I too was raised to work, be frugal, and plan ahead. I have access to gardening,, but I know so many farmers,, I don't have to do any. I DO help them when I can, (money or work,) and we always have plenty of stuff to can for our own use.

But the root of the problems mentioned above is simple.

Too many people,, including most adults,, have NOT lived a life of "doing without." Since WWII and the boom that followed,, stores have had product, resources have been available, & with only a few short lived shortages (gas in the 70's for example,) etc,, PEOPLE have not had to go any real length of time doing without necessities.
To compound the PROBLEM,, there are MANY, MANY government supplied resources that lead people to believe that they can get stuff for free. They now feel "entitled" to free food, (food stamps, EBT cards etc,) good housing,, (low rent government subsidized housing,) free phones,, (thanks Obama) etc.

So, PEOPLE have NOT had a HARD life of WORKING for basic stuff just to survive.

[fivegunner]

Don, your right on subject . I was helping the local food prantry guiding people where to park so they could get Free food, look like every body that came had a nicer car than I ever had , One drove a nice Mercedes Benz`s.

[Blanket]

wow, considering input cost to commercially raise and process live shackled, wringer gutted, disinfectant dipped chicken is about 50 cents a pound, 30 cents a pound is an unbelieve able miracle

[Shawlerbrook]

We also grow a garden, but definitely not to save $$. We have a society now where many have lost the ability to provide for themselves. As a wildlife biologist we used to tell the public that by feeding wildlife you are actually interfering in the natural process of a species ability to feed itself. We have basically done the same thing to a portion of our society where they are now helpless and totally dependent on handouts. I always said that one of the worst things that can happen to people is too not be able to be ashamed or feel pride.

[reloader28]

Did the livestock and garden thing growing up. Then started gardening again about 20 years ago.

Not worth the effort. I have almost a year of food prepped. There is a market that has great deals and we stock up during sales: some recent examples...

Canned veggies.....$.19-.29 a can
Pork loin...$1.29/lb
Pork butt.....$.79/lb
Chicken quarters....$2.99 for 10 lb bag
Butter....$.99/lb
Tuna...$.25/can
Spam...$1.50/can
Porterhouses steak...$5.99/lb
Eggs...$.69/doz
Taco kits....$1

Growing stuff is not always less expensive and certainly not needed to be prepared for hard times.

Folks spend a lot of money eating out, and complain about not having money. If they are too lazy to cook, they are not going to raise food. On TV, I see folks in car lines waiting to get food driving $40-50k vehicles...that pisses me off.

I stopped giving to the church food bank when I saw what was going on.

I agree to a point. Our prices are most defiantly different here. In my opinion, your getting by cheap with that store bought garbage, of which hardly any is good for you and none has even half the flavor of home raised stuff.
As for our rabbits, goats, turkeys, chickens and occasional beef that we raise and butcher ourselves, we dont have a huge savings, but it is most defiantly a savings.
The big plus is it is not pumped full of nasty chemicals that EVERYTHING in the store has been injected and produced with, including meat glue and fake red coloring on old off colored meat.
Eggs have very little color in the yoke and no flavor compared to my chicken coop
Of course we buy food in the store too, but we are very picky and in summer we buy very few veggies with our big garden.
Potatoes are for sure cheaper in the store, but not near as flavorfull or handy as garden spuds.
We also live 40 miles from town so its nice to just run to the garden

And yes people have gotten extremely lazy. I'm always telling people to come get excess stuff from the garden, but unless I pick it and bag it for them, they aint interested. If Im going to go to the trouble to pick it, I might as well to keep it. The excess is now given it to the animals now for feed

[Blanket]

yes it is best to eat eggs that came from a red meated bug eating chicken, pork from a pig raised on dirt, beef that is not full of steroids and growth hormones and vegetables that actually have flavor but that is just me

[perotter]

just about all of it. Canned Vegetables, confinement raised pork, chicken. Egg farmed eggs. I guess if you have no taste all of it is ok with you

Home raised vegetables are canned or frozen too. Unless you are going to only eat them for a few days out of the year. I seldom eat eggs as they to much work to make. Maybe you never learned where or how to buy meat.

I grew up eating nothing but very best cuts of home grown meat. And home grown eggs and duck eggs used for baking.

Also my family of both sided never had to grub during the 1930's. I guess they actually knew how to farm and handle money. They always ate the best of what they grew and sold the rest. They managed to buy new tractors, new equipment, build new barns, bought new guns, shortwave radios, etc and paid cash for all of it.

[FLINTNFIRE]

well good for you and your processed food diet

I agree , a garden is still fresher , farm raised and fresh is always better , had a neighbor would not touch corn that was not fresh picked and I agree was much better , a garden is good as in tight times you are not finding no farmers market , and canned goods will be scarce and are not always the best of the best .

It does not cost much to grow a lot of fresh food , and once again the sense of satisfaction from doing it yourself , buy all the meat you want till the lights go out then you better be smoking and canning it , freezers need power if you have a trickle creek you can slip a generator running off a wheel in and make a lot of juice .

To each their own and I have seen a lot of garden fresh go to waste as people are to lazy to walk 20-100 feet and pick it or cook it or peel it and prepare it , offer it and as has been said can you bring it to me all ready to go NO...

[Winger Ed.]

Isn't it strange that food isn't taxed (yet) but you pay sales tax on seeds, chicken feed, garden tools, etc to produce food???

When I was stationed in Virginia, they had a 2% sales tax on groceries.
We don't have sales tax here on food items, except already prepared stuff at restaurants.

The real/commercial farmers & ranchers here don't pay sales tax on their agricultural supplies, or farm equipment.
You do have to sign off on that it--- including untaxed fuel is all for agricultural production.

[FISH4BUGS]

I grow a 35 x 35 garden, and we have 2 6 foot freezers. Composting as much as possible provides great compost for the soil of the garden. Yard waste, leaves and and veggie peelings, etc. make for great soil.
I grow, harvest, vacuum seal and freeze all our squash, leeks, beets, carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and we eat fresh Romaine lettuce from about mid-June till the first frost. Loads of cucumbers for salads all summer.
I give away a fair amount to neighbors and trade with others for eggs, using their roto tiller, etc. The pigs across the road the get all the stuff that has gone by. Their chickens get the greens at harvest. Nothing goes to waste.
All of this is organically grown and there is nothing like it all winter and spring having fresh frozen organic veggies.
Is it work? Yes, it sure as heck is. But it is cheap therapy for me and the health benefits are worth every bit. Bending and stretching will keep me limber into my 80's.
The "Battle of the Bugs" goes on all summer when you organically grow. Daily patrols through the garden to pick off the bugs and squash them. I know they are just trying to make a living but they are stepping on MY toes. I work too hard in the garden to let the bugs or the weeds to take over.
The health benefits of eating from the garden as much as possible cannot be overestimated. Don't get me wrong...i still have an occasional Wendy's temptation that gets to me.
When the garden has been put to bed for the year, I change to casting and reloading to build up the inventory of ammo until garden season starts up again.
Shoot from the closet and eat from the freezer.
Life is good.

[Blanket]

I grow a 35 x 35 garden, and we have 2 6 foot freezers. Composting as much as possible provides great compost for the soil of the garden. Yard waste, leaves and and veggie peelings, etc. make for great soil.
I grow, harvest, vacuum seal and freeze all our squash, leeks, beets, carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and we eat fresh Romaine lettuce from about mid-June till the first frost. Loads of cucumbers for salads all summer.
I give away a fair amount to neighbors and trade with others for eggs, using their roto tiller, etc. The pigs across the road the get all the stuff that has gone by. Their chickens get the greens at harvest. Nothing goes to waste.
All of this is organically grown and there is nothing like it all winter and spring having fresh frozen organic veggies.
Is it work? Yes, it sure as heck is. But it is cheap therapy for me and the health benefits are worth every bit. Bending and stretching will keep me limber into my 80's.
The "Battle of the Bugs" goes on all summer when you organically grow. Daily patrols through the garden to pick off the bugs and squash them. I know they are just trying to make a living but they are stepping on MY toes. I work too hard in the garden to let the bugs or the weeds to take over.
The health benefits of eating from the garden as much as possible cannot be overestimated. Don't get me wrong...i still have an occasional Wendy's temptation that gets to me.
When the garden has been put to bed for the year, I change to casting and reloading to build up the inventory of ammo until garden season starts up again.
Shoot from the closet and eat from the freezer.
Life is good.

spot on. Our large garden is 50x150. I have the benefit of having a 90 hp tractor and 7 ft tiller as well as a troybuilt tiller for cultivating. We can and freeze vegetables and meat. When I raise steers I have no problems at all selling the meat as I have several people calling me for beef halves or quarters. I no longer raise chickens but can get farm eggs here for $2 a dozen and buy those for my wife and I as well as my 2 daughters families.
I gladly pick and give away extra produce to several elderly folks that cannot do for themselves, as well as my wife dropping off homemade pies from our apple trees.
We always plant to can 3 years worth based on rotation. For example 3 years worth of canned tomatoes, salsa, and juice and only grow enough each year for fresh. Most folks do not know the differences between what is grown to be commercially canned verses garden raised. In my area green beans are contracted for the big companies and the variety is tasteless. When Heinz changed varieties and went to paste production same thing
As far as bugs, Guinea Fowl make for an excellent insect control method if you don't have close neighbors

[Iowa Fox]

This is the first year in 52 years my wife and I will not have a big garden. We sold the property and our orchard was on it also. We're concerned about it. For us it was two fold, lots of natural exercise which we need at our age, lots of sunshine for the old body and all the good fresh eating, plus all the good stuff my wife canned. Yep. we are going to be lost.

[Thundarstick]

I remember reading where someone calculated the actual cost of venison, it was about the cost of Kobe beef!

I don't garden for the cost savings, as has been pointed out are minor, if at all. I grow a garden because I can grow the vegetable varieties I like best. I routinely grow varieties you'll never see in the produce isles at your supermarket because they don't keep well, and don't ship well. Tomatoes with soft thin skin don't do well in shipping containers bouncing around the back of a truck, or hold up to harvesters routinely tossing them into boxes. This is true for most any vegetable in the produce section, and usually doubly so for commercially canned goods. I can walk out to my garden and pick every fruit or vegetable at exactly the ripeness I wish and at the height of its flavor. Gardening also adds to my health in exercise and my spiritual joy. Joy? Yes, the joy I receive in seeing things grow that I have had a hand in, and the joy of being able to help others in need with not only produce, but knowledge of gardening. Contrary to what many believe, there are young people who take up gardening and home animal husbandry for various reasons. Knowing what's in your food, been used on your food, and how it was produced and packaged is important to many young families.

To prepers I'll throw in, the time to learn how to grow food isn't AFTER the SHTF! Being prepared is more than having a stockpile, it's also about knowledge and experience. A friend of mine was telling me all about how he had all the ammo ready for the fall of society, and how he was ready. I replied, where's your garden? Where's your chickens? Unless your survival plan is to shoot others and steel your food that old horse ain't gonna feed you for long!