Lyman 5th and Winchester AA for #4 Buckshot

[jdgabbard]

Appreciate it Mac. I shot some more rounds down range today. To be honest, it seemed like it shot a bit more centered, albeit high. And seemed as though they may be slower than the book suggests. A box of factory Winchester High Velocity shot side by side seemed noticeably stiffer. I believe they're supposed to be rated somewhere around 12-1300fps. But would have to look at the box to be sure. But I will say this, those factory loads looked like the hulls had been ironed flat at the crimp.

Another thing to note, is that the reason they're shooting high may in fact by of my own fault. These are being shot out of a Mossberg 500 18.5" with a polymer heat shield. Which after a little bit of observation on my end causes the shooter to raise his head a little higher than normal to see the bead. So they very well may shoot spot on. I guess this goes back to knowing your gun.

[Faret]

I wonder how some buffer would work? Like the OO load that I use.

[jdgabbard]

I agree, I think a buffer may be in order to keep the pellets from deforming as much, and possibly cut down on wad destruction.

[mac60]

JD to be honest with you, as long as it patterns well and shoots where I point it I'm not too worried about what the wad and shot look like - I'm through with them anyway. Adding buffer is a hassle and even though you have a good crimp sometimes you have to have a way to keep it from leaking out - overshot cards and such. I think you have a good load as is.

[35remington]

I agree. I also don't use buffer where the wad's petals are so short that they don't contain all the buffer, as with the 12R wad. It is said that the buffer may "dig" into the sides of the shell where it is unprotected by the shotcup and impede load movement, which raises pressure. In some cases when so doing the buffer is caked to the shells walls if the shotcup does not contain it, which isn't good in terms of getting out of the way of the wad.

Your wad still has the petals attached and the overpowder cup in good shape, which means it's working correctly. Larger buck is visually harder on a wad, but as long as it's intact and the overpowder cup is not distorted or cut you're good to go.

I'd simply harden the buck by quenching to avoid shot deformation. If using buffer, reduce the load a few grains and add mylar wrap, but this adds complication, may impede load fit due to the mylar, and is probably not worth it for a home defense type load where ranges are measured in feet. To keep buffer from leaking out, use a small blob of beeswax. Roll it between your fingers for a moment to warm it and make it easy to apply to the crimp.

At possible ranges it will be used, 1250 fps MV or 1150 fps MV is of little relevance. I've used bagged buck in #4 persuasion (Hornady) and 30 through 33 caliber balls I cast myself.

[jdgabbard]

35, thanks for the input. I'll heed your advice. I thought the load overall shot well. But being new, I don't know what all to look for as far as trouble goes.

[jdgabbard]

Well, I think I figured why the Lyman load felt lighter recoiling than the factory load. Because it was quite shy of other loadings I think. According to the link, by the way of about 6gr of powder...

http://stevespages.com/pdf/imr_reloading.pdf

[MT Chambers]

If your load doesn't fit right, get a roll crimping tool and use you drill press for a very nice roll crimp.

[Barry54]

Appreciate it Mac. I shot some more rounds down range today. To be honest, it seemed like it shot a bit more centered, albeit high. And seemed as though they may be slower than the book suggests. A box of factory Winchester High Velocity shot side by side seemed noticeably stiffer. I believe they're supposed to be rated somewhere around 12-1300fps. But would have to look at the box to be sure. But I will say this, those factory loads looked like the hulls had been ironed flat at the crimp.

Another thing to note, is that the reason they're shooting high may in fact by of my own fault. These are being shot out of a Mossberg 500 18.5" with a polymer heat shield. Which after a little bit of observation on my end causes the shooter to raise his head a little higher than normal to see the bead. So they very well may shoot spot on. I guess this goes back to knowing your gun.

Have you tried a taller front sight bead to correct the point of impact?

[Half Dog]

Well, I’ve been out of town and I’m hoping on this a little late.
There are actually 3 of the win aa hulls. First is the compression formed (CF) that are no longer made. There are Win AA., which were made and have an issue with the base coming out of the hull. Some people have found them in the barrel after they shot. Winchester modified that hull and made the Win AA-HS hulls. Those have a separate base and gives a straight walled hull a tapered fit.
If you have the Win AA hulls be sure to check your barrel after each shot to make sure you don’t have a barrel obstruction. If you want pictures of each hull, just let me know.

[jdgabbard]

Have you tried a taller front sight bead to correct the point of impact?

Solved it by removing the barrel shroud. Shoots to point of aim now.

Well, I’ve been out of town and I’m hoping on this a little late.
There are actually 3 of the win aa hulls. First is the compression formed (CF) that are no longer made. There are Win AA., which were made and have an issue with the base coming out of the hull. Some people have found them in the barrel after they shot. Winchester modified that hull and made the Win AA-HS hulls. Those have a separate base and gives a straight walled hull a tapered fit.
If you have the Win AA hulls be sure to check your barrel after each shot to make sure you don’t have a barrel obstruction. If you want pictures of each hull, just let me know.

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing those pictures... I bought these in bags of 100 from a local shop years ago, they were once fired. They appear to be the same ones offered by Ballistic Products.

[Half Dog]

The hulls on the left are the older Win AA hulls and the Win AA-HS hulls are on the right.

[Barry54]

The hulls on the left are the older Win AA hulls and the Win AA-HS hulls are on the right.

Think you would have any luck posting photos of the inside?

Another Winchester hull I’ve encountered looks more like a straight wall federal or import hull on the inside. It’s the Super-X cheapies sold in the 100 round bargain packs.

The current AA hulls with the step/lip inside are my least favorite to reload. Seems like a great way to damage the gas seal portion of the wad.

[Half Dog]

Here is the base of the HS hull. I cut the red outer hull off.

[Half Dog]

The wad fits perfectly.

[Barry54]

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about. Winchester is written on the hull, but I’d classify it as a straight wall hull.

[Barry54]

Sloppy fit with genuine Winchester grey wads. Better fit with Claybuster wad for straight wall hulls.

[Half Dog]

I believe those hulls ^^^ are steel. The AA-HS are brass.

[gns4me]

All very informative for me . I am currently working on molding and loading 12 Ga Lee 1oz. slugs and #4 buck. All the hulls I have been getting come from an indoor range .once fired and predominantly slug hulls. Majority Winchester High base that look like the photo in post #34. The hull are Grey and say Ranger low recoil on the side, roll crimped. others are red 6 point crimp and say ranger low recoil Both bases say Winchester 12 ga and are high based.

[gns4me]

The other batch are Sterling shells and have tornado slog on the side The base inside looks to be slightly different. These are high brass also. I have some Federal blue and dark red that are from rifled slugs but have a very different inside base. ARE any of these good to use ???