lots of Lead and don't know what to do?

[moose0011]

Ok so what do you mean 650 or so to preclude incorporating any zinc?

And What I am wanting I know I won't get. I would like a 405 gr Bullet that is a Hollow point that expands and hits like a hammer and yet doesn't foul my bore is that to much to ask?

[mpbarry1]

Welcome aboard. I have been learning from these folks for three years now. It took a year for me to get everything gathered upand cast my first bullets. i think you will find that this is a pretty cool group of folks with more knowledge than the worlds entire written record. They innovate, experiment, argue, teach, and mentor everyone who asks for it. some are sweet, most are crochety, and all are people I'd like to meet. Have fun!

[AlaskanGuy]

You wont have to worry much about Zinc if your just doing range scrap... I doubt if you have any Zinc Bullets in your water tank.... But what he was talking about was Zinc melts at higher temp then lead, so if you monitor your temp, you can just skim off any zinc stuff... but like I said, unless your job is testing Zinc bullets, no worries....

and I LOVE my Swiss K31.. would love to hear more about the round that you developed for it...we have a forum under the main menu of forums called Milsurp Rifles... that would be a great place to post about your special round...

AG

[moose0011]

You wont have to worry much about Zinc if your just doing range scrap... I doubt if you have any Zinc Bullets in your water tank.... But what he was talking about was Zinc melts at higher temp then lead, so if you monitor your temp, you can just skim off any zinc stuff... but like I said, unless your job is testing Zinc bullets, no worries....

and I LOVE my Swiss K31.. would love to hear more about the round that you developed for it...we have a forum under the main menu of forums called Milsurp Rifles... that would be a great place to post about your special round...

AG

I didn't design my round on a mauser though.. just the Cartridge. My gun is a push feed. I don't have a stock yet but it will be a Manners. I know the owner which helps my barrels are both Kriegers 1:8 twists one is a 28" and the other is a 30" I might chop the 28 down to 24 and hunt with it.. not sure..

[Harter66]

Moose,
I don't have any time w/any of the 45 cal rifles . But there are many threads here on the 45-70 which loaded for Ruger No1s or Mausers gets pretty close to what you're looking for. The 458 should be able to get you there w/o too much trouble. Then there is the option to paper patch , cast boolits at jacketed speeds .

The powder coating is another tool to shoot cast . In practice it should head off leading and it seems to be working up to about 30kpsi . Better for some than others.

[smkummer]

Since your range scrap has some shotgun shot in it, it may come out harder than 8-10 BHN. And quenching in water helps all alloys with hardness. For example most of my wheel weight alloy comes out at 12 and that includes stick on weights that are softer than clip on weights. If I drop into water, the bullets hit 20. Since you are wanting to cast for a .458 magnum with 2200 FPS, you may find that quenched bullets along with a gas check may be just fine. Good luck.

[cheetah]

"I don't want them to notice they could make a profit off of it."

That used to be called stealing.

[10x]

what do you mean by alloy for rifles will start the journey down the one-way road? I basically only do rifle's I do shoot some 9mm. But I get more enjoyment out of the longer range stuff. So I guess the rifle comment has me interested

I have cast bullets for over 50 years. What got me really interested was a 150 grain Lee bullet sized 0.310 at 1700 fps fired from my dads 30/06 that would give a 1" group at 100 yards and hammer an 8" gong every shot at 275 Yards. An accurate cast bullet load is an interesting load.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

there is a really good little book Magma sells, easy to read- simple - but very informative ----one of their Former Emp. Paul ??? wrote many years back and is a great book to have on hand for those brand, brand new to casting , bares the stuff you need to know and not allot of the extra stuff you don;t need to know now, does not go into smelting , cleaning, etc. just casting and issues there in.

Lyman handbook for casting 3rd ed, handed down from my dad, as old or older than me, great resource to have, hard read though- folks here will help, just ask.

When used to clean lean, 600# pot runs - range lead- the pot was calibrated to not exceed 625F the higher you go the easier to get the zinc and copper to leach out, even it does not reach melt point for that specific metal>>>, remember mixed alloys make melt and flow temps change,

so if zinc pure melts at 750?? (example) it will change when added, or mixed with the other metals, so that melt point could really be 680?? (example) too close to lead for my likes.

[Hardcast416taylor]

How often is the snail trap emptied? If the collection from the trap is smelted to make a single batch then that batch should be tested to determine the hardness. Be aware that every smelt from the trap may vary somewhat due to the type of projectiles fired into it. A 100 lb. smelt should keep you occupied for a good long time. Addatives can be added to a smelt to alter the hardness and ability to flow better. Tin is a common additive as are adding wheel weights or linotype to alter the alloy characteristics. Smelting also will free the copper material and other non lead dirt from the melted lead. BEWARE!! the water in the trap can be trapped in copper jackets or moisture be trapped in chunks of the lead! This is the dangerous part of smelting lead products that may have moisture/water in with the lead. This can cause eruptions that can throw molten lead out of the smelting vessal, this is also known as the "tinsel fairy". So the scrap lead should be as bone dry as it can be for smelting.

I cast for many cals. up to .45 cal. for .45 - 70 rollers. My favorites seem to be .416, .338 and .375 cals. You`re a little too far from me up here in Mi. for a face to face type of help, but there are others closer that may be of help. Remember the statement, "There is no such thing as a stupid question to ask, only a need to understand a procedure better".Robert

[Walter Laich]

A 100 lb. smelt should keep you occupied for a good long time.

Not to disagree but I just cast 40 lbs in two days: 200gr 45 Colt RNFP

[Island Trash]

I just ordered a few NOE boolit moulds 460405. It will drop a 405 gr solid and in the RG configuration will drop hollow points (not sure of hollow point weight) I plan on running this in a 458 as well as a 45/70. I have plain base mould and gas check mould coming. I could send you some if you want to try them. Just pm me if interested.

[moose0011]

That was more of a joke, I talked to my boss and he don't really care. He said as long as I did it off company hours and he didn't have to deal with it. its one less thing to pay someone to haul off. If I thought I was stealing I wouldn't do it.

[moose0011]

sounds like a good thermometer is a must when melting down to make ingots.

[moose0011]

we empty the snail about once a week and there is usually around 50 lbs of **** in it for about 6 weeks then there is about 100 lbs the next 2 weeks then it goes back to 50 or so and it could be more than that and sometimes less but if I was going to give a good honest guess that would be it. Most of it is lead however, there is copper and other things in there. There is definately more than I can possibly afford to buy powder for to shoot. I had been warned about the "tinsel fairy" I hadn't heard that before but I had it figured out what it meant, however thank you for the explination.

[CSH]

I would tend to think your mix will be a little on the soft side for full power 458 Win even if you quench, but you won't know until trying it. Be sure to read up about bullet fit, particularly throat fit in rifles if you want the best accuracy. You could always trade any of the excess soft alloy for harder alloy if necessary.

Be sure to save the copper from the jackets. That can be sold to a recycler and used to purchase casting "necessities". I started with a Lee 2 cavity mold, Lee 10 lb pot, and RCBS lube sizer in 1996. I would be embarrassed to reveal how molds, sizers, etc that are now in my possession. My wife thinks I have a mental disorder.

[sixshot]

Good to see you posting here moose. My oldest son also graduated from the gunsmithing school in Lakewood. He was there in the early 90's, been "smithing" every since.
To speed up the learning curve try to find someone local who is a caster....they are everywhere! Then get all your metal cast into ingots & as mentioned make sure everything is DRY, you can lay it out in the sun for a few days.
One rule of thumb is, don't run a soft bullet fast & don't run a hard bullet slow, you'll usually end up with the same results if you do & thats leading in your barrels. Lots to learn but its a fun education, I've been casting since 1966 & never get tired of it. Casting for that 458 will be great fun, you can load it up or down to suit your needs. I took one to Africa, it was a 15" Encore single shot handgun with a custom muzzle brake I built for it, worked great using cast.

Dick

[moose0011]

I would tend to think your mix will be a little on the soft side for full power 458 Win even if you quench, but you won't know until trying it. Be sure to read up about bullet fit, particularly throat fit in rifles if you want the best accuracy. You could always trade any of the excess soft alloy for harder alloy if necessary.

Be sure to save the copper from the jackets. That can be sold to a recycler and used to purchase casting "necessities". I started with a Lee 2 cavity mold, Lee 10 lb pot, and RCBS lube sizer in 1996. I would be embarrassed to reveal how molds, sizers, etc that are now in my possession. My wife thinks I have a mental disorder.

You should see my basement. my wife I believe knows I have a mental disorder.. She says she is just glad that she found someone that has a hobby that just doesn't watch tv all day or play video games all the time or things of that nature. And she is right my hobby is way more expensive than them and rewarding

[moose0011]

Good to see you posting here moose. My oldest son also graduated from the gunsmithing school in Lakewood. He was there in the early 90's, been "smithing" every since.
To speed up the learning curve try to find someone local who is a caster....they are everywhere! Then get all your metal cast into ingots & as mentioned make sure everything is DRY, you can lay it out in the sun for a few days.
One rule of thumb is, don't run a soft bullet fast & don't run a hard bullet slow, you'll usually end up with the same results if you do & thats leading in your barrels. Lots to learn but its a fun education, I've been casting since 1966 & never get tired of it. Casting for that 458 will be great fun, you can load it up or down to suit your needs. I took one to Africa, it was a 15" Encore single shot handgun with a custom muzzle brake I built for it, worked great using cast.

Dick

well hopefully I don't have to deal with the wet lead alot longer. we are getting a new system here in the next few months and there will be no water involved.. that will make my job alot easier. You said something that I didn't know as far as the rule of them. what causes the excessive leading if you push hard bullets slow? I understand soft bullets fast from cutting but I don't understand it in the opposite senario.

[dbosman]

I'm going to suggest you smoke that lead before cooking it.
Two metal buckets or halves of a grease barrel, a piece of metal smokestack, and a hole in the ground for a fire.
Make a good bed of coals in the hole in the ground. One bucket sits (upside down) on top of the hole. It's connected to the right side up bucket with several feet of smoke stack duct. The heat will dry the lead without bringing it to a melt temperature.