My homemade Golden powder!

[Sandro_ventania]

Thanks for this GP thread, got me to do stuff instead of just thinkin about it.

GP complaints & suggestions...

I was convinced by a video to purify the KNo3, and to try
making charcoal.

Nobody told me not to use aluminum to cool the solution.
I used foil to protect the aluminum baking pan. The nitrate salt
destroyed the foil and kinda wrecked the pan. I hope the bits of foil
won't make much difference in the mix.

I tried the "starch" powder, it was hard to do, took forever to dry,
set up hard as rock, failed to ignite in a 38 cartridge sticking the
bullet in the barrel (primer did that I guess). Won't make any more of
that stuff.

The Crimson powder worked well in a 38, point of aim at 25 yards.
I want to add some charcoal but the can I used to make charcoal
had no exhaust hole. I figured the smoke would get out through the
loose fit between the lid and can. It did but seems to need a hole
for more flow. There was a liquid residue that dried hard, also the wood
didn't all charcoalize. First time, I'll try again. As well as the CP works
I still want to try making BP.

(I didn't try CP in the frontstuffer, it was getting cold and I got hungry.)

Residue / rings in barrel with BP can be avoided with natural lubes
(non-petroleum), try a lube wad under the payload, works wonders.
Don't clean or lube with petroleum either, use natural stuff (Crisco base, etc.),
plenty of info here in other threads.

Bee trap: there are YT videos showing a simple wasp trap made from a 2-liter soda
bottle (cut the top off & invert it, wire it together making a bale to hang it
with, add colored sugar water, bits of fruit in for bait). Not sure if it would work on
carpenter bees, works great on wasps. 'Course "bee shot" is more fun.

PS: KNo3 smells like pee! :>(

squibloat, congratulations on getting your hands dirty! Not only is it economical, but it's fun to shoot something you made yourself. And you'll still be prepared for the zombie apocalypse...lol! Share your experiences! I also make BP, but I prefer to use GP or crimson, as they are easier to make and are much less messy in the barrel.

[a.squibload]

Thx for the response.

Purifying the KNO3 gave me a few tiny grains of dirt - agree not worth the effort.

How much difference would the aluminum flakes make? There's not much, got most of it out.
Not even sure it could be called aluminum any more, grey and dusty.

After 2 days I threw the starch powder in the toaster oven for 10+ hours, it ground up
OK but wow, what a hassle. Might try corn starch for mortar if I build a brick wall! :>)

I didn't add any charcoal to my CP, will try that soon, I think the CP style is best, easy to
make, easy to clean up after.

PS: yeah, they used to dig dirt from under churches (among other places) for the nitrates.
It was considered impolite to leave during the sermon, which could be a long time.
Hence the term "pews". OK, that's what I heard, I'm not THAT old...

[2TM101]

How much difference would the aluminum flakes make? There's not much, got most of it out.
Not even sure it could be called aluminum any more, grey and dusty.

Enough of it and your powder will start burning hotter than you want it to Less than 1% probably not too bad

After 2 days I threw the starch powder in the toaster oven for 10+ hours, it ground up OK but wow, what a hassle. Might try corn starch for mortar if I build a brick wall! :>)

It takes FAR longer to dry than any of the other mixtures we talked about here. And if you don't get it thin enough it forms a crust on it that locks the rest of the moisture in. I make cupcake pucks and use a food dehydrator unless I'm planning on making it into powder a month from now

I didn't add any charcoal to my CP, will try that soon, I think the CP style is best, easy to make, easy to clean up after.

CP has no charcoal in it, its a 2 component blend. For a single shot muzzleloader its great, you just have to use 150-200% of a black powder load. For anything else its not energy dense enough. The Iron Oxide and Charcoal you add to make it Crimson powder is only 3.8% of the mix, but makes a HUGE difference in power. Crimson powder is fine for revolvers. Still not quite enough to make a 9mm cycle, but I am told a .45ACP will cycle with it.

The manganese based version - with Perchlorate added to make it oxidize faster, *might* be enough to make a 9mm work, but I'm not there yet.

[Sandro_ventania]

Hey guys...a topic with more than 20 pages and counting, can you ask the administrators to pin it? Ask me to pin it below Black powder's sister topic!

[2TM101]

Something we haven't been talking about in this thread (as opposed to the BP thread) is what density these various alternate powders are supposed to be at. I just checked my last batch of Manganese/Pyrolusite/"Grey" and it came out at 0.88 grams per CC! Thats less than half of what commercial BP is at 1.70.

So far all I have used it in is single shot inline muzzleloaders and I was loading charge tubes for that by weight, not volume. By weight it seems to be about equal performance. But when I filled a .357 case and then measured it it was 18 grains.

I don't have any golden powder as as don't make that anymore. I do have Crimson but I think it would measure the same as the Pyrolusite as there is only a 3% difference in the composition. When Hamgunner got these results:

Gray delivered an average 851 fps., ES 83 fps., and SD 31 fps. Accuracy 3 1/2" group.
Goex delivered an average 841 fps., ES 63 fps., and SD 23 fps. Accuracy 3" group.
He had pucked and corned everything but the Golden (not sure why, but he cooked just that one)

My Pyrolusite/Manganese/Gray was cooked and never pucked. And.....wow. Everything gets pucked from now on. I'm even going to go back to my apparently not finished stuff, measure what it is now, puck it, and measure it again, and see what gain I get. It seems to be just as good as commercial Black Powder by weight - provided you can actually get it in the Gun.

Now I'm wondering about the starch powder. It will NOT puck, it comes out of the die the same crumbly powder that went in. But is it compressing? I will have to make some and check. I'll report on that in May I suppose - that stuff does not dry at any reasonable speed.

[Sandro_ventania]

Something we haven't been talking about in this thread (as opposed to the BP thread) is what density these various alternate powders are supposed to be at. I just checked my last batch of Manganese/Pyrolusite/"Grey" and it came out at 0.88 grams per CC! Thats less than half of what commercial BP is at 1.70.

So far all I have used it in is single shot inline muzzleloaders and I was loading charge tubes for that by weight, not volume. By weight it seems to be about equal performance. But when I filled a .357 case and then measured it it was 18 grains.

I don't have any golden powder as as don't make that anymore. I do have Crimson but I think it would measure the same as the Pyrolusite as there is only a 3% difference in the composition. When Hamgunner got these results:

Gray delivered an average 851 fps., ES 83 fps., and SD 31 fps. Accuracy 3 1/2" group.
Goex delivered an average 841 fps., ES 63 fps., and SD 23 fps. Accuracy 3" group.
He had pucked and corned everything but the Golden (not sure why, but he cooked just that one)

My Pyrolusite/Manganese/Gray was cooked and never pucked. And.....wow. Everything gets pucked from now on. I'm even going to go back to my apparently not finished stuff, measure what it is now, puck it, and measure it again, and see what gain I get. It seems to be just as good as commercial Black Powder by weight - provided you can actually get it in the Gun.

Now I'm wondering about the starch powder. It will NOT puck, it comes out of the die the same crumbly powder that went in. But is it compressing? I will have to make some and check. I'll report on that in May I suppose - that stuff does not dry at any reasonable speed.

For me this is a mystery. My starch powder dries in 24 hours, just in the sun! I think you are using too much water or leaving too thick a layer. I spread on a plastic sheet (towel, film) a layer as thin as a sheet of paper.

[2TM101]

For me this is a mystery. My starch powder dries in 24 hours, just in the sun! I think you are using too much water or leaving too thick a layer. I spread on a plastic sheet (towel, film) a layer as thin as a sheet of paper.

Too thick a layer is most likely it. Thin as a sheet of paper? How? You use a rolling pin or some such?

[Sandro_ventania]

Too thick a layer is most likely it. Thin as a sheet of paper? How? You use a rolling pin or some such?

Paper-thin was a bit of an exaggeration... ha ha. But I put plastic wrap on top and use a roller to spread it. It will stick to the plastic when you remove it, then you put it out to dry, when it dries, it comes away from the plastic like crispy skin.

[2TM101]

Have you ever heard of white powder? It's stronger than the GP, it's just not as clean... I've seen it used in 9mm. The recipe is also simple. 65% potassium nitrate (perchlorate is even better) and 35% starch.

So far nothing I have made actually cycles 9mm (its fine in 9mm revolvers) What mix and how much is being used to get 9mm to work? I have Perchlorate now, specifically for 9mm - do not think I need it in anything else.

[Sandro_ventania]

I personally have never used 9mm, because I don't like the caliber, and mainly I don't like pistols. But I know they've already used it. Have you tried perchlorate powder with starch? 60-40 or 65-35?

[2TM101]

I personally have never used 9mm, because I don't like the caliber, and mainly I don't like pistols. But I know they've already used it. Have you tried perchlorate powder with starch? 60-40 or 65-35?

I found there actually is a commercial formula for Starch powder that was used extensively in South Africa. "Sannadex" is a 9/8/2 mix of Chlorate, Sugar and Oxide (Iron). Not experimental, it was widely used for years by a large number of people.

50:50 Sugar and Potassium Chlorate sounds too simple, but apparently 8.5 grains of it will fit into a 9mm, and it cycles. Also I get the general idea that starch and sugar are interchangeable as I see formulas with starch used and then somewhere else is the same formula but it is sugar instead, and the same amount..

Perchlorate may be slightly better than Nitrate but for 4 times the cost I won't get any more of it. Potassium Chlorate seems to be the Oxidizer of choice for anything that does NOT contain Sulfur. So much so that all the formulas need to be redone, and the resulting product could be too powerful for muzzleloaders.

Back to the drawing board

[dondiego]

I found there actually is a commercial formula for Starch powder that was used extensively in South Africa. "Sannadex" is a 9/8/2 mix of Nitrate, Starch and Oxide (Iron). Not experimental, it was widely used for years by a large number of people.

50:50 Sugar and Nitrate sounds too simple, but apparently 8.5 grains of it will fit into a 9mm, and it cycles. Also I get the general idea that starch and sugar are interchangeable as I see formulas with starch used and then somewhere else is the same formula but it is sugar instead, and the same amount..

Question I have then is how much better is perchlorate in this case?

60:40 Sugar (or starch) & Perchlorate? or 65:35 if its that much better. Though to be honest, if I can get a 9mm to cycle with plain old Nitrate I may stop experimenting. This was the "Holy Grail" and if 9mm works, anything will.

What is a 9/8/2 mix?

[Sandro_ventania]

I found there actually is a commercial formula for Starch powder that was used extensively in South Africa. "Sannadex" is a 9/8/2 mix of Nitrate, Starch and Oxide (Iron). Not experimental, it was widely used for years by a large number of people.

50:50 Sugar and Nitrate sounds too simple, but apparently 8.5 grains of it will fit into a 9mm, and it cycles. Also I get the general idea that starch and sugar are interchangeable as I see formulas with starch used and then somewhere else is the same formula but it is sugar instead, and the same amount..

Question I have then is how much better is perchlorate in this case?

60:40 Sugar (or starch) & Perchlorate? or 65:35 if its that much better. Though to be honest, if I can get a 9mm to cycle with plain old Nitrate I may stop experimenting. This was the "Holy Grail" and if 9mm works, anything will.

I know Sannadex as a powder made from sugar and chlorate. It is quite hygroscopic, if you use starch, it becomes less hygroscopic. Have you tested the crimson powder by adding the perchlorate? I wish I could test it before I tell you, but like I said, I don't use 9mm. But I strongly believe that by adding the perchlorate, it will cycle to 9mm.

[Sandro_ventania]

What is a 9/8/2 mix?

I believe by volume. 9 parts + 8 parts + 2 parts

[HamGunner]

I believe that will calculate out to 47.37 % of the Nitrates, 42.10 % of the Starch, and 10.53 % of the Iron Oxide.

[dondiego]

I believe by volume. 9 parts + 8 parts + 2 parts

Is that by volume or weight?

[HamGunner]

I would rather think by weight of dried ingredients. Not nearly as accurate other wise.

[HamGunner]

i found this posted here on this site from back in 2016. It is shown in volume, so that was likely the usual way of measuring it.
KNO3 - 2 1/3 cups, Sugar - 2 cups (starch ?), Iron Oxide - 1/8 cup.

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/a...psvklnwckw.png

[2TM101]

Is that by volume or weight?

It was by TABLESPOON. Site I got it from was in Zimbabwe. I assumed it was Potassium Nitrate but it turned out to actually be Potassium Chlorate.

I just got a whole lot of Potassium Perchlorate, but then a Chemist pointed out that It reacted slower than Potassium Nitrate and only produces 18% more oxygen by weight. So that was a waste. Chlorate is much better than either, but just how much seems to vary.

And the gremlin is Sulfur. Not only do you have to keep it away from petroleum based bullet lubes, you get it anywhere near the Chlorate and your reloading room will blow up like a Meth lab.

[LAGS]

Aren’t priming compounds like H48 and F42 made from potassium chlorate and Sulfur ?