Tinsel fairy

[dearslayer]

So would it be safer to wait till the pot is just about empty and then add more ingots, as if almost starting from the beginning instead of adding to say, a half filled pot? Is the theory then that the ingot melting slowly from the bottom up, will be less likely to explode than if was dunked into a half pot of already molten lead? I would have thought that no matter what, if there is water/ moisture no matter how introduced, would still be the same effect no? Either way it has me a little paranoid that it may happen again. It's a heck of a mess to clean up!

[TjB101]

Ran a pot today of 357 and 44’s and took heed with respects to OP’s post.

Since I keep my ingots in an attached, albeit chilly garage I took 1/2 dozen ingots and tossed them into my PC oven while the pot warmed up. Aside from toasting the ingots I was very pleased that the pot did not loose that much heat when I tossed them in. New process established.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve dated the Tinsel Fairy more than once. I’ve always been lucky. The ingots most likely had a bit of moisture in them after all that time. You could bake them in an oven or leave them out in the sun in the summer. Otherwise, start melting them in a cold pot.

[remy3424]

I was actually thinking that I may melt them all down at some point and recast. I have my own cast ingots I can use in the mean time.

Good idea there, get them all the same alloy and cleaned-up. I do like to try to keep the pot full, have never had an added ingot react, but brother, that one of your made a mess for sure! Glad you had gear on. The only time I had a flair-up was using a used Lyman ingot mold I purchased at a gun show. The first pour into it got crackling and popping, nothing like your event, it did it for a couple pours, less each time. I think the seller had maybe oiled it or sprayed it with WD-40 or similar.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I was actually thinking that I may melt them all down at some point and recast. I have my own cast ingots I can use in the mean time.

That is a good idea.

[Jal5]

I like the melt down and recast idea too. Glad you are ok


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[bangerjim]

Water inclusion can be in ingots! Always inspect them all if stored outside. Heating to about 25F below liquidous temp on your hotplate B4 ever casting them will eliminate any moisture entrained in the ingots.

I would SEROIOUSLY consider recasting all those old bogus ingots to be on the safe side. start with a bunch in your cold re-melting pot and bring up to melt temp and NOT add any new ones. ...start from cold again if there are more.

You can never be too cautious when working around unknow lead and melting it!

Glad you were not injured!

[Hickok]

Deerslayer, glad to hear you are alright.

Thanks for posting this, as it helps keep all of us cautious and alert to the danger.

[Murphy]

I hold fast to one rule regarding the tinsel fairy. PRE-HEAT everything. I keep a hotplate next to my casting pot to sit ingots on for pre-heating. If it's going into molten lead, it's going to get the treatment. I live in a high humidity area and leaving nothing to chance. In short, been there, done that.

The only other word of advice I can offer is this. Hopefully the area where you cast has enough space to leave you a little running room. Soon as you hear a popping sound coming from your casting pot, run!


Murphy

[mdi]

Water expands to steam at a ratio of 1,700 to one. When water goes below the surfade of the melt, as in/on a wet ingot, the expansion is immediate, resulting in an explosion, aka a "Visit from the Tinsel Fairy". Unless the ingots were stored in a dry (competely dry) place the safest method to use them is start them in a cold pot. Some claim water dropped on a pot of melt will also explode, but the water must be below the surface quickly, as carried by an ingot or damp/wet scrap. I have poured water on a pot of melted lead many times and the result is just water dancing onnthe surface and turning into steam (when in my eary teens I cast sinkers on Mom's stove. Normally when she wasn't home and to shorten clean up time, I cooled the pot by pouring water slowly on top of the liquid lead, No problems)...

[358429]

I hold fast to one rule regarding the tinsel fairy. PRE-HEAT everything. I keep a hotplate next to my casting pot to sit ingots on for pre-heating. If it's going into molten lead, it's going to get the treatment. I live in a high humidity area and leaving nothing to chance. In short, been there, done that.

The only other word of advice I can offer is this. Hopefully the area where you cast has enough space to leave you a little running room. Soon as you hear a popping sound coming from your casting pot, run!


Murphy

Yes always have an Escape Route

[charlie b]

Great lesson. Never had a tinsel moment, probably cause I have always lived here in the SW and kept my lead in dry containers. But, never say never!!

I do like the preheat idea, even for ingots I buy. I keep a plate hot for my molds anyway so laying the next ingot on that plate would be easy.

[dearslayer]

Well thanks to you all I'm learning a wealth of knowledge in a very short amount of time I've been on the forum.

[SteveM54]

Hmmm, that leather welding jacket that I looked at online last week looks like a good idea now. I was just wearing leather gloves & safety glasses but may up the game here a bit. I too recently came into possession of about 1200 pounds of "free" casting lead - all of unknown source or content. The hot plate idea for preheating the ingots will definitely be used also.
Thanks for posting your troubles with the "tinsel fairy". I learned something here !!!!!

[faraim]

A couple of you folks use the term "Cold Pot." what exactly is that? Thanks.

[Dusty Bannister]

When I use the term "cold pot" I mean either the first firing of the session, or after allowing the prior firing to be cold enough that the contents in the pot are solid. Adding room temperature alloy will prevent the alloy remaining in the bottom of the pot from becoming liquid too quickly as the heat will transfer from the alloy to the ingots and they will have time to evaporate any moisture on the ingots.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I've got some ingots stored under cover outside. Even preheated they still bubble and spit a bit when added to the pot, but no tinsel so far. Best thing I have found to reduce the scare factor is to ease them in very slowly with a ladle. Lets them do their bubbling near the top of the pot instead of the bottom and I can back them out if things start to get too exciting.

[Helka]

Glad your ok dearslayer! that was a close call!

[nhyrum]

Another thing to be careful with is introducing a fluxing spoon or lead ladle to the pot without thoroughly brushing them off. I often hear them sizzling and popping even when clean and find it's best to lay both on the pot rim for a while to warm up before plunging them into the mix.

I agree with that. ANYTHING that goes into the pot needs to be properly heated to evaporate any moisture. Fluxing spoon, ladle, ingots, anything.

To the op's question above regarding where to refill the pot, I prefer not to let the pot get too low. The reduced head pressure will change how the lead flows out a spout(I bottom pour, I guess if you ladle, disregard) but I also prefer to put a relativity small amount of solid lead (I'm avoiding calling it cold, because it's NOT cold) to the melt to reduce the impact on temperature. Having them sit next to your hot plate simply isn't getting them hot enough. Make sure they're good and hot, and KEPT good and hot for a while before adding them to the pot. Not only does the lead need to throughout reach at least 212°F(or slightly lower at higher altitudes than sea level) but it needs to actually reach a higher temperature (a pot with boiling water won't be able to get hotter than the boiling point until the water is gone. Put a styrofoam cup with water in it in a fire. The cup where the water is won't melt), and be held there to make sure any and all water is gone. I generally try to keep the ingot on top of my pot for at least 15 to 20 minutes. Then, in an abundance of caution(like I've said above) I put the ingot in my fluxing spoon and slowly drop the ingot into the molten lead. If there's any moisture in the lead, it will get evaporated out before it gets below the surface of the lead.

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[GRid.1569]

The fact that it bubbled for a bit before it blew suggests there was a small cavity or crack in the ingot that had some moisture in it. It doesn't take much of a cavity to hold enough moisture to do what you pictured.
I worked in a heat treat facility that used molten lead for a heat bath. During the forty odd years I worked there, we had this issue several times. Granted, the ingots we worked with were much larger(50-100 lbs) than the ones commonly used in casting pots but the principle was the same.
One man didn't pre-heat the ingot by setting it on the edge of the lead pot and suffered the effects of the ensuing explosion. The lead pots we used held roughly 1200lbs of lead. At full temperature, they were about 1500 degrees F. His explosion dumped a third of that lead out of the pot. He got hit with lead spray across his stomach and legs. Enough so that he had to go to the emergency room to deal with it. Took him a while to get the burns healed up.
That ingot had about a teaspoon of water in a cavity that wasn't readily visible. If he had pre-heated it, the explosion would not have happened.

Getting the ingots up to 300-400 degrees ensures there won't be any visits from the Tinsel Fairy and helps the lead pot recover heat quicker. You can put the ingots on your hot plate in a small metal pan if you are worried about them melting on it.

I recall reading somewhere that 1ml of water will create 1.5lt of steam... a 1500x increase in volume... that’s what empties the pot... scary stuff...