Neck sizing 30/30 ack imp

[RNT]

I'm wanting to neck size my 30/30 Ack Imp brass for use in a T/C Contender 24" rifle barrel and I would prefer to use a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die to do it. One option is to send three pieces of brass and a projectile to Lee, along with $70.00, and they will make one for me. Another option has come to mind that, from my understanding of how the die works, may provide a less costly alternative.

The way I understand it, the Lee CNSD is case length sensitive with the critical dimension being the distance between the base of the cartridge and the junction of the case neck and the shoulder. So as the case neck fully enters the collet the shell holder accuates the die's mechanism and crimps the round.
The Ackley is right around 1.650" for that dimension and a .308 Win is 1.710. The Ackley is slimmer than the .308 and it will slip right in with no contact.

So according to my logic (which has been back assward at times) running a piece of 30/30 Ack Imp brass into a .308 Win collet sizing die will result in the Ackley being necked sized to a point about .060 shy of the neck/ shoulder junction. I don't see any problem with that, in fact, in my feverish imagination I see the potential for a possible benefit with the unsized portion assisting in centering the round in the throat.

But the main reason I'm even considering this is because I'm cheap. I can always go the Lee route ($70.00 +) or just pick up a .308 Lee collet die for 20 something dollars from Midway and get essentially et the same results. If it works.

I'm just throwing this out there hoping for some input, one way or the other, from any members who have an opinion or experience on the subject. Am I onto something or just missing something?

[tazman]

I used a standard Lee neck sizing collet die to size my 243 Ackley improved and it worked perfectly. There was plenty of room for the shoulder inside the collet die.

[Pipefitter]

To use a full length sizing die to neck size a bottleneck case you need to use a case that has been fired in the chamber you are intending to neck size to. Lube the case, and then smoke the neck/shoulder with a match or lighter. Back the sizing die a turn or two out, and begin running the case into the die. Observe the mark on the neck where the die has worked the brass and adjust the die into the press until you get close to the neck/shoulder junction. Lock the die at this position. This will size only the neck of the case.
After a few firings you will probably have to full length size the cases again.

Edit: this is assuming that you have a 30-30AI full length die to use.

[Andy_P]

Depending on the outside neck diameter you require, which is determined by the combination of bullet diameter and neck thickness, you can sometime use F/L or Seating Dies for other cartridges that are already in your inventory. I've done this several times. For example, I use the 9mm Makarov F/L Die to Neck-Size my 9.3X62.

You might try 32 ACP or 32 S&W dies.

[Texas by God]

Depending on the outside neck diameter you require, which is determined by the combination of bullet diameter and neck thickness, you can sometime use F/L or Seating Dies for other cartridges that are already in your inventory. I've done this several times. For example, I use the 9mm Makarov F/L Die to Neck-Size my 9.3X62.

You might try 32 ACP or 32 S&W dies.

Been there & done that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[earlmck]

I'm wanting to neck size my 30/30 Ack Imp brass for use in a T/C Contender 24" rifle barrel and I would prefer to use a Lee Collet Neck Sizing die to do it.

But the main reason I'm even considering this is because I'm cheap. I can always go the Lee route ($70.00 +) or just pick up a .308 Lee collet die for 20 something dollars from Midway and get essentially et the same results. If it works.

I'm just throwing this out there hoping for some input, one way or the other, from any members who have an opinion or experience on the subject. Am I onto something or just missing something?

That'll work just fine RNT. And if you wanted to get all the neck squozed down you could grind a little off the bottom of that 308 die.

[RNT]

Tazman;
That's the sweet thing about an Ackley based on a rimless round. When you run your .243 win into the Ackley chamber it head spaces on the junction of the neck and shoulder just like in the standard .243. Fire forming blows out the body taper and resets the shoulder but the overall case length and the length of the neck remain unchanged. Therefore, a collet neck sizer designed to work on any rimless cartridge will work perfectly with its Ackley offspring. In the case of the 30/30 Ackley not only is the taper blown out but the shoulder is moved forward, the neck gets shorter as well as the overall length. I think that's pretty much the case with all of the rimmed cases that Ackley improved.

Pipefitter, Andy_P and Texas by God;
Great suggestions, in fact I'm pretty much doing what Pipefitter suggested at this time. But what I'm looking at is eliminating the push and pull involved when using dies that employ an expander. I've used Lee collet neck sizers for other guns in the past and in my opinion they are the best tool for me, for what I want to do.

earlmck;
The more I think about it the more I think it will work, but that being said it's always good to get some positive feedback on an idea. Thanks!
Of course if in fact it doesn't work out I could always buy a .308 to load for, you know....... so I don't waste the die.

[earlmck]

Of course if in fact it doesn't work out I could always buy a .308 to load for, you know....... so I don't waste the die.

Yeah! I like the way you think RNT. I owned a set of Hollywood .218 Bee dies for several years before I finally got a Bee. 'Course it helped that the Bee sizer makes a perfect neck sizer for 22 Hornets of which I have a couple...

[HangFireW8]

Am I onto something or just missing something?

Are you loading jacketed, or cast? If cast, how much oversized will it be, 0.000", or 0.004", or something in between? Gas check or Plain Base?

If you resize to jacketed dimensions, and try to force a Plain Base in there, you may be sizing the boolit and marring the base. 30/30 brass in a 308Win will give you a little latitude, because 30/30 brass is a bit thinner... but my experience with factory sizing dies, FL, NK or Collet, is that they do not leave the neck at a suitable dimension for cast. Almost always it is too small. With a GC you can get away with forcing it in there (usually), a PB, not so much. But you also have more sizing going on then necessary, which impacts brass life (yes, even with NK sizing dies, because, sizes too small and then expands too much, even though it doesn't touch the shoulder.)

Variable bullet pull can also affect accuracy, and the variation of really tight necks can be considerable.

I gave up on factory NK and FL sizing dies for accurate rifle reloading, and went to bushing dies years ago, and that was for jacketed. It was a great investment because when I started with cast, I only needed to buy a few bushings.

[Harter66]

I'm a little late .
I use a 308 die for my 30-30 because my 49' Savage has a very round shoulder on the body side . 3 cycles no call for FL yet .

[Motor]

It's not a perfect solution but you can neck only size in any die that has the correct size neck section and will accept the case that you want to neck size.

An example: I use my 300 Rem SAUM sizing die to neck only size my 7.5x54MAS brass. The bore is large enough to not touch the case body and the die is short enough to size the entire neck.

You simply adjust the die to size down the length of the neck that you want sized. In your situation any full length or neck only die made for a .308" bullet will work as long as it's bore is large enough to accept your case and short enough to do the job.

Motor

[RNT]

[QUOTE=HangFireW8;4281383]Are you loading jacketed, or cast?

In this situation I'm loading jacketed. I was given a coffee can full of demilled M80 ball and I was planning on using them for fireforming and a little barrel break in for my recently acquired Ackley Improved Contender barrel. Once I transition to cast I'll most likely run the brass unsized and work with the boolet for a good fit.

[HangFireW8]

Tazman;
That's the sweet thing about an Ackley based on a rimless round. When you run your .243 win into the Ackley chamber it head spaces on the junction of the neck and shoulder just like in the standard .243. Fire forming blows out the body taper and resets the shoulder but the overall case length and the length of the neck remain unchanged.

That's not exactly my experience fire-forming several hundred 257RAI cases. That shoulder filling brass has to come from somewhere. It either stretches or draws from above and/or below.

Sometimes it came from stretching from the cartridge head. Then I had incipient case head separation, and had to toss those cases.

I found that by lightly oiling the neck and shoulder, I could better assure that the brass that fills the shoulder came from the neck area. The result was a slightly shorter neck, but nothing that affected anything negatively, not more than the setting on my brass trimmer.

[jsizemore]

The contender frame/barrel design is a little springy. If you don't bump the shoulder a little then you run the possibility of not fully disengaging the interlock safety. I shot the 25 Bullberry which is based on the 30-30 case and know this well. I used a shoulder bump die with bushings. You could adjust you FL sizer so you bump the shoulder a couple thousandths and see if that works