Hangarian Mannlicher

[richhodg66]

My Dad is at the age where he is downsizing very seriously and has been giving me a lot of stuff each time I go see him. Among things this last trip was a very beautiful sporter built on one of these actions and I will have to find Dad's dies for this as it was in some wildcat caliber, not the original chambering, however, Dad had bought a rifle just as a parts rifle for this one in case something ever broke. I can remember im having both of these for at least 35 years.

This "parts rifle" is complete with all the hardware on it and when I checked, the bore looks very good. It seems to be a carbine version of something rather than an infantry rifle. I am assuming this is the same rifle as the Austrian Mannlichers being imported now? This one has no import stamps I can find.

I'm intrigued enough that I want to load for it and it seems brass, molds. dies etc., are common enough to do it now. Guess I'll do a search, but is there any reason to believe a Hungarian one (says Budapest on the receiver) would be different from the Austrian ones coming in now?

[RPRNY]

Assuming they are both 1895 Steyr straight pull bolt action rifles (originally in 8x56R), they are the same rifle. When they were built, they were made for the Austro-Hungarian Empire. While unified under the Emperor in Vienna, ostensibly the Kingdom of Hungary was a separate entity (much like Norway and Sweden when the Krag and Mauser were adopted by each military). So while one may have been manufactured in Budapest, provided they are indeed both Steyr Mannlicher 1895s, they are the same. Many of them were later converted to 8x57 so yyou will need to confirm what it is chambered in.

[richhodg66]

OK. I'll need to get a few of the clips. It's a straight pull. I should be able to just look at the bolt face and tell if it's for the 8x57, quite a difference in rim size.

[VintageRifle]

Thought they were originally 8x50R, then covered or made to use 8x56R, and some converted to use 8x57 (8mm Mauser).

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[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is no important difference except chamber and bore dimensions, in the straight-pull Mannlichers, between the Austro-Hungarian and later Austrian 8x50R and the Hungarian 8x56R. In fact after the breakup of the Empire you would have found Budapest staying with Austria and Steyr ones being converted in Hungary, so the main arsenal mark doesn't tell you anything. So your father could just as well have a parts rifle (smart move!) in one chambering as another.

I'd call the Hungarian cartridge marginally the better of the two, for its long neck, but both are usable. The Germans converted captured 8x50R rifles to 8x57, I believe with a more conventional magazine, and I think various importers and tinkerers did as well. The action is a strong one, but I don't believe I'd trust any of the conversions unless I had the chance to examine it very closely, and see (not hear about) extensive testing in use. I doubt if any of them reduced the bolt face, since that is a difficult operation, and the helically rotated bolt head was rather sophisticated to make. An 8x57 conversion of an 8x56R rifle would be all of that, plus a grossly oversized bore.

If you buy cases or dies beware of the 8x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer and the 8x56R Portuguese Kropatschek and Guedes, for these are completely different cartridges. People will tell you that you risk inaccuracy by sizing down jacketed bullets from the easily available .338 to the .330 or so needed for the Hungarian round. The jacket tends to spring back slightly from the diameter of the die, and the lead core doesn't. I've done it, and achieved quite good hunting accuracy from the falling-block Guedes, but that was the Speer 275gr. bullet, with a very long nose in which jacket and core are unaltered. Check the bore on an 8x50R, but I think it will be fine with standard .323 8mm. bullets.

[richhodg66]

Looks like I may need to do a chamber cast to be sure.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A chamber cast is advisable, but it doesn't have to be of the quality you would need to have dies or a reamer specially made for an unknown rifle. Car body repair filler will do a job amply good enough to tell which of those cartridges it is chambered for, especially when it confirms a groove diameter measurement at the muzzle. Remember to oil the chamber if you use this, though. You feel a fool if you don't.

[Texas by God]

richhodg66- I found 4 clips that you can have. A tad rusty but the price is right. PM if you need them. Best, Thomas.

[richhodg66]

PM sent.

[Texas by God]

They're in the mail. Have fun! Best, Thomas.

[Scharfschuetze]

Most of the Styer Manlicher 1895 weapons were converted from 8X50R to 8X56R during their service. The arsenal doing the work stamped a large "S" (Probably for "Spitsgeschoss") on the top of the barrel just forward of the receiver to indicate the rechambering work. All of the recent imported M95s that I have seen are so modified.

A taller front sight for the "S" modifed weapons may also indicate the conversion.

[richhodg66]

They're in the mail. Have fun! Best, Thomas.

Thanks for the clips, they look great.

I think I'll swing by Academy Sports tomorrow since I have to go to Topeka anyway and see if I can get a box of that PPU ammo for it.

[richhodg66]

Can't find an "S" on it. This is not one of the rifles that has been recently imported as I can remember Dad having it before I was a teenager and I'm 50. No import stamps I can find, not sure how it came into the country. The stock is rough, but complete and original and otherwise, it appears in good shape. Gonna shoot it eventually, just gotta get the stuff together to load for it.

[Scharfschuetze]

8X50R cases may be a bit hard to find, but you should be able to form them from the readily available 8X56R cases. I also understand that you can form the case from the Russian 7.62X53R case.

I believe the 8X50R used a heavy round nose bullet. I bet you'll be able to duplicate factory ballistics with a similar cast boolit.

[Texas by God]

Thanks for the clips, they look great.

I think I'll swing by Academy Sports tomorrow since I have to go to Topeka anyway and see if I can get a box of that PPU ammo for it.

Rich I would imagine Graf&Sons has that ammo/brass if you can't find it. Best, Thomas. If its 8x50R I would call Bob Haley in Seymour Texas.