Does anyone have loading data for 5477 for these rifles?

[fiatmom]

Forgive me for asking a question that probably has been asked 1000 times before. I searched the forum and 5744 powder did not come up. I also checked all of the reloading manuals.
I would like data for the 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 mannlicher, 577-450 martini, 43 Egyptian (probably will stay with black), 11mm Mauser, and 8mm Mannlicher..
I like the powder and thought that I would find more load data.
Would the data for 8mm Mauser work for the Mannlicher and a Siamese? And the data for 45-70 in the Egyptian and Mauser?
he other reduced CB powder I use is Unique.
Thank You
Nick

[pjames32]

Lyman Cast bullets manual #4 has data. You can also go to the Accurate web site for data.
PJ

[UBER7MM]

...
Would the data for 8mm Mauser work for the Mannlicher and a Siamese? And the data for 45-70 in the Egyptian and Mauser?
The other reduced CB powder I use is Unique.
Thank You
Nick

Nick,

These calibers loads generally aren't transferable. It would be better to find the actual published loads from a bullet or powder maker or gun magazine. Then start with the minimum loads and work up looking for pressure signs as you go.

The Lyman #44 has some data on the 6.5x52 Mannlicher Carcano as well as the 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer. The copyright is 1967 and not with the powder you've specified, however.

You can find a copy here:

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/re...oading-manuals

I hope this helps,

[fiatmom]

I found information in the Lyman book for 43 Mauser but it was only for black powder. I wish they would have kept the information for the Mannlicher and Carcano. There has to be a place to find loading data for these obscure cartridges.

[leadman]

I use 20grs of 2400 in my 43 Mauser with the Lyman .446" boolit or the Lee 300gr pistol boolit.
I was given a mold, cases (from late 1800s), berdan primers and a letter written by staff at the NRA in the 1960s by a friend of mine for the 43 Mauser. This was many years before I bought my 71 Mauser. The 20gr load is what was recommended by the NRA and it works great. I would not hesitate to start with 5744 with the same charge and work up if I used 5744 now.

[Wdog01]

fiatmom:
I use Acc5744 for several old calibers. I found it is perfect powder for original black-powder calibers belong to 1870-1890 era rifles.
I load 5744 for 8x57J Mauser, 7.5x53.5 Swiss GP90, 11mm (.43) Mauser, .45 and .50 rolling-blocks (Swedish and Danish).
To my big surprise, man can use still same load for all these calibers!! ... so my "the load" is 28 gr. of 5744, performance and speeds are similar to original military cartridges. If I want to have weaker "target" variant, I load 24gr. of 5744. For all (cast) bullets, for these calibers I use from 230gr G-C bullet (7.5 and 8mm) ... approx.1900 fps ... and cca 400-450gr. cast bullet for big calibers .43-.50. ... about 1300 fps.
Reliable and accurate, and easy to remember, still same.
In my opinion you can use these load 24-28gr. of 5744 for all calibers mentioned by you.

[MT Chambers]

Check with the guy at the Quigley shoot, he blew his gun up using it, Pedersoli 45/70.

[Geezer in NH]

Buy actual loading manuals? never,cever trust the internet for loads IMHO as they are not REAL

[W.R.Buchanan]

After a while as you gain experience with different powders and read many different manuals, you will start to get a feel for what will work or is too much. Many cartridges are similar to other cartridges and their loads may be similar if not the same...

I have to work up a load for my .35-303. I have not been able to find any data whatsoever. However I have found data for two similar cartridges. 35 Krag and 35 Remington. This information and my Chrony will help me develop safe loads for this gun. I know what speeds 250 gr bullets should be running and with that information I can interpolate what powders will perform best. IN many ways similar to what a .303 Brit is loaded to,,, but slower. I have data for 215 gr Woodleighs for a .303, so a 250 gr bullet in the same case running at say 2200 fps can be interpolated easily,,, especially when you have the data for the 35 Rem and 35 Krag which are very similar cartridges to reference.

A good friend and very knowledgeable gun guy told me recently about his pet load for .308 with 168 gr Boattails. 63 gr of Varget! I finally told him that a .308 case wouldn't hold 63 grains of anything. He thought for a second and said OOPS,,, I meant 43 gr.

This is why you never use verbal data for anything.

But I knew he mis-spoke, simply because I have loaded a lot of .308s. My pet load is 45 gr of IMR4895 with a 147gr recycled bullet. 45 gr of Varget would work as well with that bullet so 43 gr of Varget would be appropriate with a 168 gr bullet.

For a given cartridge, the charge weight of a given powder will be reduced as the bullet weight increases..

Understanding Reloading Practices (How to assemble ammo) is different than understanding Reloading Mechanics, (why certain components are used in certain places.) and we all should try to understand as much of both as we can.

That's part of the fun !

However that doesn't mean that we shouldn't consult several established loading manuals before we jump off the cliff into new territory.

To not do so is just plain stupid.

Randy

[Wdog01]

Sirs, some of your opinions seems little bit strange for me. I spent years on re-developing these old cartdridges, I studied original military cartridges data, read old manuals, read new reloading manuals, used ballistic software, made and tested cartridges, measured with chrono. I have such results, sorry, I have no fun in arguing with you.

1. @MT Chambers: I read that threat, but now we know nothing about the reason. Yes, some rifle was destroyed, and maybe with cartrigde loaded of ACC 5744: two possibilities, good cartridge and problem of rifle, or good rifle and bad cartridge. But cartridge could be load to safe 24 grs. of 5744, or, for example by mistake of reloader, to double load of ACC5744, and that ist destructive, of course. Without detail study of destructed rifle and other survived cartridges we know nothing. Yes, some rifle exploded somewhere, nothing else.

1. @Geezer in NH: mentioned 140 years old calibers are not listed in actual loading manuals, that is basic problem. Only one exeption is 45-70 govt., because is used recently too, and is listed in three different performance levels. Some old calibers are mentioned in Accurate Loading manual 2000, vol.2. And there are existing some detail tables for many obsolete calibers and French powders Vectan, written in 2006, unfortunatelly not more published. But with these Vectan tables you have to derivate data for other powders.

1. @W.R.Buchanan: yes, I generally agree, and is very important to record all you loading data, especially if you work on exotic calibers.

1. The Accurate 5744 powder: let me quote from Accurate (powder producer) official info:

Our XMP-5744 has proven to be an extraordinary powder! XMP-5744 is a short cut, extruded, double
base rifle propellant. Its burn rate is between our No. 9 and 1680. XMP-5744 is not intended to set new
velocity records. What it will do, however, is allow you to shoot reduced loads, without fillers, in just about
any cartridge, especially the older, low pressure, rifle cartridges. IHMSA shooters take note, it is also useful
in large capacity handgun cartridges.
XMP-5744 has some very specific design criteria. First, it is double base with a high percentage of
Nitroglycerin. This gives the propellant a high energy content. It also promotes consistent ignition even
with low volume powder charges in the large capacity ‘‘old timers’’ such as the 50 Sharps. In fact, the 50
Sharps was used in some of the development work for this propellant. Nitroglycerin contributes to excellent
shelf life and reduces the effects of humidity and temperature.
Second, XMP-5744’s short length provides uniform metering so you can spend more time shooting
and less weighing charges.
Third, XMP-5744 has a relatively low bulk density. This contributes to its ease of ignition. In fact,
ease of ignition and consistent velocity, regardless of powder position in the case, are the two main criteria
we set in manufacturing new XMP-5744.

1. I put here original Accurate loading data table for 45-70 govt in less powerfull level, for Trapdoor rifle. As you can see, powder 5744 and load fr om 24 to 28 grs. is safe for most of listed bulles. And because this is official producer table, there is no risk, they keep a reserve, I am sure.

1. For example, for .43 Mauser, I personally tested several loads and bulles, incl. paper-patched. I measure all, I record all, and my conclusion is: use cast bullet about 400 grs. with 28 grs. of ACC 5744, dia max. 452.

1. I shoot only original rifles, in good condition, I do not believe for replica producers as for example Pedersoli is.

8. @fiatmom: when you study these obsolete calibers, you can find, that performance is similar to 45-70 govt. (Trapdoor level). Performance = weight of bullet and muzzle velocity, these data is available for old calibers too. And if the performance is similar, or same, and cartrigde is similar, we can use 45-70 govt. 5744 data (for Trapdoor). We are in the low pressure range with these cartridges. Btw. Trapdoor rifle action is, in my opinion, the weakest rifle action system from all mentioned calibers (rifles). And could be load with 5744, so why not others?

Sorry for long text, it is complex issue, but with clear results. Sorry for possible typos, I have injured fingers now, but not from shooting !!!

Bye Ales

[Tedly]

nice post. I use AA5744 in all my military stuff...