sell me on the .35 whelen

[Matt85]

im in the market for a bolt action hunting rifle and I was originally looking for something in the 6.5x55 cartridge due to high accuracy and low recoil. but the 6.5x55 cartridge does seem a bit small for some of the game id like to take in the future (elk and black bear) so ive been branching out trying to find a cartridge that catches my fancy. im a fan of strange cartridges and even I cant tell you why I pick some over others but its just the way I am. so as the title says, what are the benefits here?

1. current production factory rifles chambered in this?
2. trajectory?
3. effective with cast bullets?
4. ability to dirt big game fast?

thanks
-matt

[hicard]

I have the 35 Whelen, 350 Rem Mag, 35 Rem, 357 Max and the 358 Win. My favorite is the 358 Win but, I like them all.

[wch]

As far as hunting the larger animals in North America, that's precisely why the 35 Whelen came to be. In the 1920's the only means of acquiring a large bore (or magnum) cartridge rifle was through the purchase of a very costly Mauser magnum action or an even more expensive British version of the same, and the boys wanted to do some big bear hunting.

As it happened, Mr. James V. Howe (later of the firm of Griffin and Howe) was working at the Frankford Arsenal for Col. Townsend Whelen; the good Colonel designed the cartridge and Mr. Howe made the reamers and chambered the first rifle produced. The action used was that of the 1903 Springfield which was easily obtained at the time. Howe named the cartridge after his boss- not a bad idea at all!

Ballistic information for the cartridge (which was "legitimized" in 1987 by Remington) is available in many places on the internet, and most loading manuals have a section devoted to this fine old cartridge.
I believe that if you build one you'll be pleased with the versatility of the rifle and the availability of components for reloading; cast bullet performance will be just as good as the bullets you produce.

[W.R.Buchanan]

To add a little to wch's history the idea was to re-bore/rifle the Springfield barrel to .358 which would allow use of bullets up to 250 gr. With cast you are looking at 158gr .38/.357 boolits up to 300 gr rifle boolits. A pretty nice spread.

Randy

[Shooter]

I did not like the .35 Whelen with cast. I suffered shoulder set-back. Pistol primers may help.
It is fine with jacketed.

[DeanWinchester]

I've been teetering back and forth on the Whelen and the .358 Win. I can't seem to make up y mind. I've thought of so many rifles to put them in, worse than a woman, I jut can't make up my mind. But, I lean toward the .358.

[Hamish]

If I am not mistaken, the combination in the thread below is regularly shot out the back door at a 400 yard gong:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ight=35+whelen

(Shameless promotion) The BRP 360-220 has become the HM2 360-235-1 Thor

[35 shooter]

To add a bit of flavor to the history of the whelen, it's been called the poor mans 375 h&h. For big game hunting back in the day it was evidentally cheaper to build one than the larger bore and action was.

Sell you on it?
Not aware of current factory rifles for this year but there should be some new in the box remingtons still around if you did a search for them and of course the various single shots it's been made for.

With 200 grain jacketed it has a trajectory right with a 180 grain 06.

Hits like Thor's Hammer but in most rifles gives a big push, not hard kick. Of course as you move up in bullet weight the kick is more pronounced but to me not unpleasant at all. I'm 160 pounds and 60 years old and i love mine.(TC ENCORE)

Easy to obtain accurracy with cast boolits and also speed if you so desire.
Mine will shoot sub moa from 1800 to 2500fps most of the time with maybe a one and a half inch every now and then. Working on a 2600fps load now and so far still under an inch @ 1oo yards.

First deer shot with it was facing me at 60 yards with only the white throat patch visible between the forks of a tree. At the shot the world went white thru the scope. When i got to him i knew why. He had been rolled over by the impact. DRT!!!

The whelen covers everything from 38 special loads for small game right up to the 375.
If you like the description you'll like the rifle better. Good luck.

[uscra112]

The Whelen has been notorious from day one for shoulder setback shooting cast, unless you ream it out to the Ackley Improved. I'd pick something with a belt or a rim.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

When at 18 years old I lost a 10 point standing buck at 200 yds using Sierra 180 SPBT in a Mauser mk10 .30-06, I decided to get a stopping cartridge. Three years later, I bought a pre-chambered barrel thru the shotgun news and fit it to a 98 mauser I was putting it together. I have not shot anything bigger than whitetails but on them it's the hammer of Thor. 200gr RCBS flatpoints, 50/50 mix of ww/pb and 3031, 4350 or RL-7 and there's fresh venison on the table. I have cast the RCBS 250 silli FPGC and it is an accurate bullet though I haven't taken anything with one. My ratio of cast to jacketed boolits is 500 to 1. The original mauser I built so many years ago still sports the 20" barrel I installed on it and is my "go to" rifle for brush popping...

I have always used '06 cases, seated the cast boolit out to hit the lands in the barrel snuggly for case forming and never had a problem with headspacing.

[outdoorfan]

I love my Whelen. It is a Savage action with McGowen 24 inch barrel in 1-14 twist. I shoot a Mountain Molds-made 250 grain lfn with .21 meplat. I use 50/50 alloy (ww/soft) and heat treat for 21 bhn. I shoot them at 2350 fps. Recoil is not bad at all. Add 2-3 grains to that (RL-15) and recoil starts to really get my attention.

I've shot several deer with it over the last 3 years. They either were drt or didn't go over 40-50 yards. I've shot two at just shy of 300 yards. Blood trails were VERY obvious. I once shot a 5-shot group at 375 yards that went into appox 4 inches.

Yeah, I love my Whelen.

[pietro]

the 6.5x55 cartridge does seem a bit small for some of the game id like to take in the future (elk and black bear)

IMHO, you're seriously underestimating the 6.5x55 - which Europeans have been long using (over 100 years) to drop Elg (Moose) & European Brown Bears (Google is your friend).

About the only game animals on the NA continent that I'd be hesitant to use the 6.5x55 on would be our large bears (Polar, Kodiak, Brown, Grizzley, etc).




.

[fouronesix]

"sell me on the .35 whelen"

If you put a good barrel on a decent action, the 35 Whelen sells itself, with one caveat- the 35 Whelen AI version is the way to go. I don't know how to compare it to the smaller bores- or much larger bores for that matter??? It compares to the 9.3x62 or a shorter package 358 Win.

[felix]

Shoulder set back is from light loads with the case having a shallow shoulder. If recoil is too much, get a smaller case for full loads. General rule. ... felix

[ajjohns]

I have a 95 Winchester (later build) in that crazy 270 win. I bought it with the thought of barrelling it to a 35 Whelen in later life. I haven't yet - but I think it's as good a thought now as ever. Especially when you can buy the Pattern 21 Lyman sight, now made by Providence Tool.

[fouronesix]

Shoulder set back is from light loads with the case having a shallow shoulder. If recoil is too much, get a smaller case for full loads. General rule. ... felix

Shoulder set back happens no matter the pressure of the load. The higher pressure loads simply "hide" the set back by stretching the case just forward of the web and forcing the head back against the bolt face.

[40-82]

I am probably here writing this today because one June morning I crawled out of my tent with a Remington 700 35 Whelen in hand. I was about 40 days out traveling in Northern Saskatchewan heading for the Territories. A very large black bear that wouldn't back up stood in front of me. When he dropped to all fours I knew I couldn't wait. With the morning sun shining in my face and reflecting off the headnet attached to my bug jacket, I couldn't see through the Williams Guide Sight, and I knew better than to dare try to open the tiny zipper with a bear that close. I chambered a round from the four in my magazine and pointed toward the center of mass. I didn't know if that shot would stop him but I knew it would kill him. If I was going to die, I meant to have company. The shot didn't stop him, but instead of charging he jumped sideways over my canoe. One good whack with his paws or his feet and I figured I was out of a canoe and stranded. Even though I still couldn't see my sights, I took more time with my second shot and stilled the thrashing bear with a head shot. The first shot when I had the chance to examine it later proved to be a good center hit in the chest. Bear meat was pretty good after eating nothing much but fish and biscuit in the month before.

I was never impressed with the performance of the Hornady 250 bullet I used that summer, which was the only jacketed bullet I could come close to affording, and I was never satisfied with bullet performance in the 35 Whelen until I got a mold for the RCBS 260 grain bullet. The vast majority of the shooting I have done with the 35 Whelen could have been handled as well with a .243. Sometimes even better. I remember head shooting ptarmigan from the canoe at a bad angle knowing that the recoil of the 35 Whelen was going to come back and catch the Remington safety against the web of my hand and I was going to bleed, but I wanted those ptarmigan bad. Even if the 243 would of worked as well for most of the things I did with the 35 Whelen, I found the big rifle a comfort when I had to sleep in tundra grizzly or polar bear country.

[Matt85]

wow I had forgotten I even made this thread. glad I did too, cause it made for a good read. thanks all!

please explain what shoulder setback is? (ive only reloaded for strait walled cases so far)

I have been able to find new Ruger M77 hawkeye's chambered in .35 whelen. i still find my self drawn to the 6.5x55 cartridge and i believe that's due to its inherent accuracy and flat trajectory. however the ease of obtaining 30-06 brass and the ability to used .38/.357 158 grain bullets for gallery loads make this caliber very appealing! i currently cast and load for a .357 Blackhawk so ive already got a nice 158gr bullet mold (biglube snakebite).

-matt

[fouronesix]

Simply- shouldered, rimless cartridges rely mostly on the shoulder to control headspace at the start of the firing cycle. Firing pin hits primer, primer fires and tries to move to the rear (which forces case forward), main powder charge pressurizes expanding front of case body against chamber walls, front of case stays there while rear of case moves rearward forcing case head back against bolt face, bullet leaves barrel, pressure goes to zero. In that series of events the case has stretched just forward of the web area. The shoulder set back happens at the very first stages of that sequence where the firing pin and primer impulse pushes the case forward and over runs the shoulder area of the chamber. In low pressure loads that don't force the case head back against the bolt face the evidence is the primer staying protruded after the firing and is visible. Given an identical case in the same chamber fired at higher pressure.. the head is forced back against the bolt face and the effects are hidden because the primer is re seated and all looks well- except the case has stretched just forward of the web. The 30-06 family of cases with the shallow shoulder angle are susceptible to this. The 338-06 is more susceptible than the regular 06. The 35 Whelen is more susceptible than the 338-06 and so on. Simply because the amount of shoulder to control headspace is lessened in each example as the caliber increases. One of the ways to off set or defeat the problem is the Improved case design- where the body is expanded and the shoulder sharpened thus creating a better resistance (larger more abrupt datum ring) to the set back or loss of headspace control. Where it starts to become especially noticeable is in the 35 Whelen or larger caliber wildcats based on the 06. That is why the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved (AI) is better than the regular 35 Whelen IMO.

[lonewelder]

IMHO, you're seriously underestimating the 6.5x55 - which Europeans have been long using (over 100 years) to drop Elg (Moose) & European Brown Bears (Google is your friend).

About the only game animals on the NA continent that I'd be hesitant to use the 6.5x55 on would be our large bears (Polar, Kodiak, Brown, Grizzley, etc).




.

I agree a 6.5x55 would do fine,as would a 7-08.But so would a whelen!