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Thread: 7.62x54r Primers?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Bullseye can be used for "mouse fart" loads in most bottleneck rifle cases -- that is, distinctly subsonic, low-noise reloads, and like most faster burning powders is position independent -- that is, it does no harm to have a tiny charge in a big case because ignition won't be changed if the powder is all by the boolit as opposed to by the primer. Some folks prefer slightly slower powders like Unique, but there's lots of information about making very light loads with fast powders, and it's generally accepted as much safer to use a fast powder for very light loads than a slow one.

    Yes, Bullseye will also work for .380 loads, or pretty much any other pistol or revolver cartridge (handgun loads are the "bread and butter" for Bullseye); you won't get maximum velocity with such a fast powder, but it'll produce loads that will cycle the action with a minimum amount of powder (i.e. lowest cost) and reduced muzzle blast compared to a hotter load with slower powder. The small amount of powder is difficult to measure accurately (0.1 grain variation is a lot in a two or three grain charge compared to a 40+ grain charge of slow powder in a rifle case), but the big issue with fast powders, in any case, is that it's possible to double charge without catching it, and a double charge is unlikely to be safe in any handgun (a double charge of a mouse fart load in a Mosin or other military type rifle might be okay, but still to be avoided if possible).

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    would recommend Trail Boss for an inexperienced reloader until you earn your wings. No way to double charge, cheap, efficient, low noise, Almost impossible to run into pressure situation unless you compress. JMHO. learn the process first. I have been reloading for 20 years and have been mentoring a friend for 2 years. He just purchased his own equipment this week. Not because he was cheap but because he wanted to learn how to be safe. For the first year I stood mentored and watched. even this week he came over and I let him set up start to finish. He still had a couple questions. Go slow learn right. Remember 1 mistake a missed powder charge or a double can end your life bullseye or not.
    Our house is protected by the Good Lord and a gun and you might meet them both if you show up here not welcome son!

  3. #23
    Boolit Mold
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    Hey Guys

    So I’m listening to the various answers on here and I’m trying to figure the best thing to do. I have two quick questions.

    1. My goal is to shoot my mosin for plinking for very little money. That being said what powder do you recommend for that application.

    2. The possibility of double charging is a concern for me. However I understand there are risks in any reloading application. What steps do you guys take in order to avoid the possibility of double charging with small amounts of fast burning powders.

    Anyway thank you guys for your advice.
    James

  4. #24
    Boolit Man
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    James,
    Please be careful. Listen to these guys. They will steer you in the right direction in a SAFE manner. I cast for & shoot the 7.62x54R. I shoot an Accurate 200 gr. GC bullet using 23 grs. 5744 powder. I'm shooting 1" groups at 50 yds.. Bullseye is a real fast burning powder and not something that I would choose for the Mosin-Nagant. Especially with you being new to reloading. Please do your research.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master opos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiminmo View Post
    Hey Guys

    So I’m listening to the various answers on here and I’m trying to figure the best thing to do. I have two quick questions.

    1. My goal is to shoot my mosin for plinking for very little money. That being said what powder do you recommend for that application.

    2. The possibility of double charging is a concern for me. However I understand there are risks in any reloading application. What steps do you guys take in order to avoid the possibility of double charging with small amounts of fast burning powders.

    Anyway thank you guys for your advice.
    James
    The way to avoid the possibility of double charging or at least to help minimize that risk is to load powders that more completely fill the case...example...lots of folks load W231 in a 45 colt...it's a "standard practice"...standard or not I'm not comfortable with it so I load Trail Boss...it's a very bulky powder..I load 200grain rn/fp projectile and Trail Boss (sorry but I don' t quote recipes on line but this one should be easy to find on the Trail Boss web site ..IMR) and in my 45 Colt Clone SAA it is no sweat on pressure..cheap to load and deadly accurate. I'm sure you could .... with some direction from the books and published data...find a load using a bulkier powder and get great plinkers...I'm not a fan of Bullseye (I know it's the Holy Grail of loading) but I'm older and more of a belt and suspenders person and the tiny quantities of Bullseye in a bigger case scare me to death because of the ease of double or even triple charging a bigger case...wasting (or postponing use for another caliber) $20 or so might save you from some real nasty outcomes. I am not sure if there is a published load for the Mosin using Trail Boss or not but if so that might be a really good plinking alternative and one hell of a lot safer. IMR publishes a formula many folks use that allows the load to be tailored to many cartridges safely...you can probably dig it out if you have the literature you indicate you have.

    I've been really cautious and really lucky and never fired a double charge (yet)...but I have pulled several sets of loaded cartridges because I had a "funny feeling " about my technique or an interruption...never found an over load or a squib but my gut was talking to me and I needed to be careful. Those loads were 357 mag using 231 (Hp38..same thing) with 125 grain Speer projectiles (jacketed) and the powder didn't do much to fill the case at all...I now load 357's with other more bulky powders including Trail Boss with a 125 grain lead RNFP and it is terrific and safe.
    Last edited by opos; 01-06-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  6. #26
    Boolit Bub
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    To the OP. I don't post on here often because most of these guys are wiser than me in the art of slinging lead. I do understand what your trying to do because I do it the same with my M91/30. The article you referenced about mouseloads in those rifles is correct. I use Industrial Pistol Powder in mine under a 170 grain cast bullet. I won't list my load data because I don't want to be responsible for someone reading my info wrong.

    What I'm trying to say is, you're on the right track, but be careful. With handloading, one mistake, wether found with the pull of the trigger or in the beginning stages of loading, should lead to serious contemplation of how not to make mistakes in the future. After all, we want to read more of your posts on here, and not your obituary.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy Desertbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiminmo View Post
    Hey Guys

    So I’m listening to the various answers on here and I’m trying to figure the best thing to do. I have two quick questions.

    1. My goal is to shoot my mosin for plinking for very little money. That being said what powder do you recommend for that application.

    2. The possibility of double charging is a concern for me. However I understand there are risks in any reloading application. What steps do you guys take in order to avoid the possibility of double charging with small amounts of fast burning powders.

    Anyway thank you guys for your advice.
    James

    Hi there James welcome to the forum.
    Ok if you must use the fast powders use 2 loading blocks one for charged casses and one for the uncharged casses. Charge one cass on the right move it to the left. Thats the best way to keep from geting a double charge. Or you can use slower powders that will over flow if thay get a double charge! I like to use the slower powders because thay dont get lost in the big rifle casses. No need for fillers or stuff like that. But do read and read some more! It will save you in the long run. Be SAFE! But have fun.
    Last edited by Desertbuck; 01-08-2013 at 01:26 PM. Reason: bad spelling no spell check on a nook lol
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    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
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    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
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  8. #28
    Boolit Bub
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    I also use the method of looking inside each shell casing and weigh each shell casing after charging when loading like this.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
    Ed in North Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertbuck View Post
    Hi there James welcome to the forum.
    Ok if you must use the fast powders use 2 loading blocks one for charged casses and one for the uncharged casses. Charge one cass on the right move it to the left. Thats the best way to keep from geting a double charge. Or you can use slower powders that will over flow if thay get a double charge! I like to use the slower powders because thay dont get lost in the big rifle casses. No need for fillers or stuff like that. But do read and read some more! It will save you in the long run. Be SAFE! But have fun.
    This works well, and I would add checking the level of powder in the cases when the 2d loading tray is full. Use a flashlight for cases if needed. When you are looking at a tray full of charged cases, any which might have a significantly different powder charge (more, or less) will be fairly easy to see.

    Ed

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    I agree with the flashlight, it works great and its fast and easy. Also I have made it a habit when I know that im going to be distracted by either the wife or kids that I will drop the powder charge and seat the boolit before I charge the next round. I started doing this after I had to unload a batch of 380's just to be sure, loading with a 3 year old awake wasn't my best idea.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by madsenshooter View Post
    You should have known, but I think the clerk who helped you should have known too. Warning: Don't let them sell you any of the Russian unleaded primers! Junk, won't hardly fire a .308 sized case full of 4895, unless it's the Russian variety.
    Them's fighting words. Some of my most accurate match loads have been made using Wolf primers.

    I too caution you about the Bullseye powder. While a safe load can be made with 6-7 gr of Bullseye, it's a very tricky animal. Extraordinarily low recoil and noise no more than a .22 may lead you to think it wasn't that hot of a load, when in fact pressure due to fast burn rate is right up there with a regular rifle load.

    The mold you have chosen may or may not work. If you slug your bore and find it is in the .310-.312 range, it should do just fine. If you (as many do) have an oversized bore, it will lead the snot out of it.

    What are you doing for lube?

    Please don't approach this with the attitude I see you hinting at- namely "THIS is how I AM and this is how I am DOING this." That will at best lead to the result of poor ammunition with poor accuracy, and at worse lead to blowing up your rifle. You certainly CAN learn how to reload by book reference alone; I did as I didn't know anyone who reloaded. However, hours spent puzzling over books can be cleared up in 5 minutes with an experienced reloader. If you post where you are, I'm sure a board member would help you.

    In an ideal world, the order I'd proceed with this as a total newbie would be:
    1. Read 2-3 books on the subject; watch a few youtube videos.
    2. Visit a reloader and see how he does it.
    3. With his guidance, order your stuff.
    4. Have him help you set it up and oversee the first few rounds assembled.
    Last edited by jonk; 01-24-2013 at 10:23 AM.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master







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    Jonk speaks words of wisdom, particularly when it comes to advice to newbees and the use of bullseye in rifle loads. I weigh all finished cast rifle loads that are not at least 1/2 of the powder capacity (to the neck) of the case. With lite loads of bullseye,and weight variations in cast boolits, and cases, it would be easy to get a double charge of bullseye even weighing the finished rifle loads. I will only load bullseye and powders of a similar burning rate in handgun ctgs.
    1Shirt!
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  13. #33
    Boolit Bub saintdel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiminmo View Post
    As far as casting boolits I've being doing that for a while, so I’m not quite as naive on that subject.


    James
    Kinda curious how one new to reloading would be an experienced boolit caster. Not contesting the statement, just saying.

  14. #34
    Boolit Man
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    i prefer 18 gr of 2400 with 170-180 gr cast...1800 fps (seemingly without regard to the position of the powder in the case), but a good, light, plinking load that works well is magtech's .32 cal 98 gr lead rn over 7-8 gr of 700x. tin can accuracy, quiet, easy on the pocketbook and shoulder and doesn't require full length case sizing.
    budman

    ignorance is fixable...

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Theres a huge amount of information out. Be careful some might be inaccurate. If you are new use published data only. Theres a huge database online too, that includes what size primer. Pm if you need help, I was there at one time too. Was buying components long before in actually started reloading.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
    Ed in North Texas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonk View Post
    Them's fighting words. Some of my most accurate match loads have been made using Wolf primers.
    The comment was about the "green" lead free primers, not the "regular" primers. I haven't used the "green" primers, but have heard complaints about them. If you are using Wolf "green" primers and not the regular primers, let us know. It might change some minds, or not.
    Ed

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  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    Trail boss loading information:

    Pdf: http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

    From surplusrifle: http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles...kiss/index.asp

    Trail boss makes for good plinking loads and the cases fill up nice preventing double charges.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check