308 or 303 Enfield

[hardy]

Given a choice between a 303( rimmed) and a 308(Ishapore) for the same price,which is the better buy?I,m a shooter,not a collector. Thanks,Mike.

[HollowPoint]

I have an odd third choice between the two.

I recently re-barreled my No. 4 with a true 30 caliber barrel.
In essence, it's now a 30-303 that uses 303 brass necked down
to shoot standard 30 caliber bullets.

Why did I do such a thing?

I had three reasons for doing so. The first reason was that I already had a few
bullet molds I could use in a 30 caliber bore .(308")

The second reason was that 30 caliber barrels were easier to get at a cheaper price
and already contoured the way I needed it.

The third reason was that I was doing this re-barreling job myself so if I screwed it up it wouldn't be
as great a loss as if I'd screwed up an expensive .311" bore barrel.

Either of your choices are good ones provided you get decent rifles to begin with. I'd lean toward the 308 because of the availability of reloading components; and because I don't have one of those.

HollowPoint

[bruce drake]

If you are just buying a shooter, get an Ishapore in 308. The 303 Enfields are starting to get pricey to purchase along with shoot and reload for if you are a new reloader.

If you have a history of shooting 303 British caliber rifles than go for the English/Australian made rifles. The Pakistani rifles (303 and 308) are rougher but solid rifles in their own way.

I've toyed with the idea of rebarreling/rechambering one of my more beatup No 4s to 30-40 Krag simply to gain a new 30 cal barrel but other projects always seem to rear their head and shift my priorities.

[725]

Depends on your end purpose. The Ishapore is more than just a rebarreled .303. They have an improved steel receiver and shoot like crazy.

[BruceB]

I speak from a somewhat-parochial viewpoint, having served most of my time with the Enfield .303 in Canada, with .303 rifles of Canadian manufacture.

Those rifles,from Canada's Long Branch arsenal production, are generally considered to be the best .303 Enfields ever built.

A couple weeks ago, I bought a NEW-CONDITION .303 Long Branch #4 in Reno for under $300. I consider it to be a great bargain, and better than any Ishapore rifle ever built.

Once a handloader assembles his components, moulds and tooling for a given cartridge, costs between the various cartridges are very similar. Right now, today, we have the best variety of bullet moulds that has ever been available for the .303, and brass is also easy to come by. ANYBODY can mess with the plebian .308; it takes a certain amount of individuality to get involved with the .303!

I know what my choice would be, but I have four .303s already (as well as three .308s) so I guess I'm just hopeless.

[bruce drake]

Another Bruce that is biased towards Enfields... say it ain't so!

Best bolt action battle rifle ever made in my opinion (that'll get the Swede and Swiss fans riled up)...

I've owned LongBranchs and Savages before as well and I would say it would be difficult to say they are any better than the English or Australian made ones but all four countries took thier time making them versus the Pakistani models which sometimes show the difference between a skilled labor force and a non-skilled manufacture.

Bruce

[45 2.1]

Those rifles,from Canada's Long Branch arsenal production, are generally considered to be the best .303 Enfields ever built.

Indeed, the Longbranches ARE the best #4 303 Enfeilds out there. BUT, if you find a like new Ishapore 308 with an excellent bore, it would be my first choice. Hard choice between the two.........

[303Guy]

Choose the one with the best condition bore. The Ishapore (308) will be a stronger steel (4140) and I think more 'collector' value. A lot of folks seem to want an 'Ishy' so exchanging it later for a No.4 might be an option.

My vote goes to the No.4 but you didn't say what the 303 Enfield available to you is. No.4 bores seem to more in spec than SMLE's. I've no idea about Ishapore tolerances but an out of spec 308 will be worse than an out of spec 303. We expect a 303 to be out of spec.

The primary difference between the Australian made and Canadian made rifles is the rifle model and steel used. The Auzzies used the original spec steel for the SMLE's they were building while the Canadians used 4140 for the No.4's they were building. If one wants a rifle for it's 'collector' value then perhaps an Ishapore, otherwise my choice would be a Long Branch No.4 I have three of them, two with two-groove barrels, one of which I've never tried out but is mint and said to be very accurate and the other which has a 'rust textured' bore is scary accurate with jaxketed loads. Not so much with cast or paper patched. I actually have four No.4 barrels (had five) and all were in spec while none of my No.1 barrels are in spec (two due to rust induced modification).

[Multigunner]

I have an odd third choice between the two.

I recently re-barreled my No. 4 with a true 30 caliber barrel.
In essence, it's now a 30-303 that uses 303 brass necked down
to shoot standard 30 caliber bullets.

I'd considered going that route, but good .311 and .312 bullets are more easily available these days.
While you should have no problems with this tightbore in .303, tests by Ruger and the Birmingham Proof Authority do indicate significant increases in pressures when tightbores are used with the .303 and .308 rifles.
A former Ruger employee once posted of tests run on a No.1 Ruger single shot in .303 assembled on a custom order many years before the company came out with its recent limited edition No.1 in that chambering.
The customer wanted a .308 bore to allow use of standatd dia .30 bullets, there being far more highly developed bullets available in this diameter.
To ensure a good safety margin they fired standard .303 cartridges with .311 bullets in the tightbore and measured the difference in pressures. The increase in pressure somewhere was well over 3,000 psi, about a 7% increase.
Tests on 7.62 NATO chambered target rifles fitted with barrels having bores of .307 and .306, which had been popular due to the often undersized bullets of some European milsurp 7.62 ammo, also indicated significant increases in pressures.

So long as the ammo was in the mid range of acceptable pressures there was no concern, but when long range target ammo that normally danced on the edge of maximum acceptable pressures was used the resulting pressures exceeded recommended safe maximum pressures.

So while safe in your hands, you might want to be sure the bore diameter is plainly marked so a heir doesn't run into unforseen problems if using maximum pressure .303 milspec ammo with full diameter bullets.

The SMLE and No.4 actions are best suited to rimmed cartridges, and the .303 does all I would wish for in a rifle of this class, so I have no desire for a 2A or any 7.62 conversion of a No.4.

[Hamish]

Not to be a S.A., but you got to get out a that either/or mindset.

Think BOTH!

[Lonegun1894]

I have three .303 British rifles. Two are No 4 MK 1s, one British-made and the other a Canadian Longbranch, and the Canadian is the best of those two. The last is a P-1914, that i haven't had long enough to test properly yet but seems to be at least as accurate as the Longbranch. My only experience with a Ishapore was when a friend bought one years ago. We were curious, so took them both to the range together and regardless of which one of us was doing the shooting, the .303 Brit-version ALWAYS beat the .308-version. That surprized us both, but that was our result. Keep in mind though, that that was just ONE .308 and for all we know he ended up with a bad one. Ever since I started reloading and especially casting for .303s, they have been impressing me more and more. But I also have several .308s in other guns, and like both calibers--just in different platforms.

The post just above mine gave the best answer yet though--get both!

[hardy]

Words of wisdom all around.Upon inspection, all of the 308s have had a stone taken to the cocking piece whereas the 303 I decided on had not.Previously at the range I had the pleasure? of firing a 308 from the same shade tree gunsmith.Nasty!!!!So,guess what?After a
good,And I mean GOOD,inspection,I have decided on the BSA 1918 #1 Mk III *.Just a better fit,finish and feel to the whole contraption Thanks everyone,Mike.

[bob208]

well i have both infact i have about 7 enfields and 1 in .308 if for some reason i had to go down to just one it would be the .308. brass is eaiser to get no headspace problems.

[TCLouis]

308 . . . 303

Hmmm

303 . . . 308

Ahhh 308 hands down for me . . . Brass, boolits even if you lower yourself to bullets the multitude choices abound in the 308 realm.

[Jack Stanley]

After having five of the Ishapore thirty caliber rifles I sold them all and haven't looked back . Currently for me it's a toss up between a Lithgow number one and an English number four mkII .

I'm glad ya found a classy old rifle to make ya happy

Jack

[puddledog]

I've got an Ishapore 2A it shoots very accurate, I've shot a #4 and it too was very accurate, I like them both ,the only differance I can tell is alittle bigger hole in the paper from the 303.

[hardy]

Further info needed.The buttstock has NZ separated by a broad arrow.I,m guessing New Zealand.Any help would be appreciated.Thanks,Mike.

[m.chalmers]

Location and price? A NZ marked No 4 MkI* is worth more then an Ishapore 2A. What's the selling price?

Go here to learn more:
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdis...-Enfield-Forum
http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

[hardy]

Location and price? A NZ marked No 4 MkI* is worth more then an Ishapore 2A. What's the selling price?

Go here to learn more:
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdis...-Enfield-Forum
http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

The location is in my safe and the price was fair .I was asking about the cartouche,not the value...LOL Thanks for your interest,but I,m keeping it for now. Mike

[missionary5155]

Greetings
If I had to make that choice down here in Peru.. The 308 is the only rifle round always on the shelf. I have never seen any 303. But that is Peru.
I reload both when up north there. 308 componets are everywhere. 303 takes some hunting but nothing difficult. So with a mold and brass there is no difference to me. It would all depend on the rifle available and price.
Mike in Peru