7.65x53 Argy Brass from 8MM Mauser?

[atr]

after you have sized, and trimmed be sure to check that they chamber ! Sometimes I have found it necessary to combine a quick annealing of the shoulder and one more
re-size to get the shoulder right.

[bruce drake]

OK, So I tried the 1/16" Brownell Stamp set on some LC 30-06 cases and they work just fine but you have to either have a vice to hold the case steady or grow a third hand to hold it steady while you have one hand on the hammer and the other on the punch.

But it does re-mark them very nicely if you take your time.

Bruce

[adrians]

after you have sized, and trimmed be sure to check that they chamber ! Sometimes I have found it necessary to combine a quick annealing of the shoulder and one more
re-size to get the shoulder right.

ain't that the truth,?
iv'e had to pull a couple of boolits because i didn't do that .

[oscarflytyer]

I have a shellholder I took a couple thousands off to make it work.

Leadman, et al

Question here... I am having a problem getting both my 8x57 and 7.65x53 Argie to headspace from the formed 30-06 cases. Thought it was neck thickness, but not.

I finally resized some factory cases in both calibers - and had the same problem as with the formed 30-06 brass. Bolt will not quite close on either rifle. In all instances, it appears that the resizing is not setting the case shoulder back far enough to chamber.

RCBS dies for 8x57 and Lyman for the Argie. RCBS #3 shellholder in all cases.

Am I correct in assuming that 1) no matter turning the die in a full turn after hitting the shellholder, can't push the shoulder back far enough, and 2) this problem is why you shaved the shellholder a couple thou - it will allow the case to get up in the sizing die that little bit more and set the shoulder back the extra cpl thou so that it will headspace correctly.

Before I go any further and/or get any more frustrated... someone pls help. Thanx!

PS: Have both RCBS #3 and Lee #2 shellholders - and both are .125" deep from case seat to top of shellholder. Leadman - what is the depth of the shellholder you shaved?

[leadman]

You are correct as to why I trimmed the shellholder. If you haven't annealed the necks and shoulder of your reformed brass you may want to try that. This will change how much the brass springsback after sizing.

Or take a shellholder and measure how thick it is from bottom to top and then put some emery or sandpaper on a flat surface and run the top of the shellholder over the paper in a figure 8. Measure frequently and resize a case when you have a couple thousands off and see how it fits. Repeat if necessary.

There has been some discussion over the years on the correct length for the 7.65 brass. When I started shooting it all the brass was marked 7.65 X 54. Now it is marked 54.
There also was some loads made in S.America on old machinery that was too long for some guns.

[220swiftfn]

I'll have to measure it, but maybe the RCBS #11 shellholder is shallower???


Dan

[nicholst55]

I've had a couple of sizing dies shortened by .020" or so, so that I can size brass for those cartridges with any appropriate shellholder. I suppose I ought to buy a dedicated shellholder for those dies, set them once and then forget them. Have to add that to my 'a round tuit' list.

[adrians]

Leadman advice is sound.
my dies are LYMAN and the shellholder for this cartridge is the x-2 but i had to knock off a couple of thous to make it work.
i thought i knew the slight differance between 7-65 Arg and 7-65 Bel shoulder dimensions but apparently Lyman haven't figuired it out ,as my box clearly says 7.65 ARG.

[oscarflytyer]

I am having fits. I am beyond trying to make the reformed 30-06 brass work right now. I can't even get the 8MM or Argie factory brass to work after sizing...

I have taken an 8MM piece of brass that was fired in my rifle, and the empty case chambers. After I run it through the sizer, it won't completely chamber. Can't completely close the bolt. This is crazy - never had this happen before. Finding almost the same thing with the Argie.

I am using RCBS for the 8MM dies and Lyman for the Argie. Reloaded a bunch, but never had this happen. The 8MM brass is mixed Euro stuff. I have some Norma Argie brass that didn't go thru my gun, and the empties won't even come close to chambering in my rifle! Looks like they were fired in a very long chamber...

I cut some tin out of a beer can and shimmed the shellholder. Shim was about .008-.010 thick. Cases came much closer to chamber and some would after this drill. So I am in the process of thinning/lowering the top edge of a Lee #2 shellholder. Both the Lee and the RCBS shellholders are .125" deep from top edge to base. Trying to get it down to about .115" thickness.

My assumption is that the shellholder thickness is not letting the case enter the sizing die deep enough to set the shoulder back far enough to chamber.

My rifles are a Prod44 8MM Mauser and a 1909 Argie Engineer carbine. Apparently both have very tight chambers...

Anybody is free to tell me that I am missing the obvious!!!

[Larry Gibson]

1st, is the shell holder bumping solidly against the bottom of the FL die and not "camming over" when you are sizing the cases?

2nd, since you are FL sizing have you checked the oal of the case after sizing? They will grow when FL sized and if too long will prevent chambering unless trimmed.

BTW; both my 7.65 and 8x57 FL dies are Lyman's and I've never had problem one with either.

Larry Gibson

[gandydancer]

is the military brass reloadable on the 7.65x53-54? I just sold over 600 rounds of live ammo of that caliber for $50.00 bucks to a friend of mine. I had the ammo for over 20 years never used any. GD

[oscarflytyer]

1st, is the shell holder bumping solidly against the bottom of the FL die and not "camming over" when you are sizing the cases?

2nd, since you are FL sizing have you checked the oal of the case after sizing? They will grow when FL sized and if too long will prevent chambering unless trimmed.

BTW; both my 7.65 and 8x57 FL dies are Lyman's and I've never had problem one with either.

Larry Gibson

Larry

Press handle to the top of the stroke, screw die in to touch the die, drop ram, screw in the die 1/8 turn. The ram comes up and cams over at full stroke.

I thought maybe the necks/cases were too long and not allowing chambering. BUt measured some and they are barely over trim to length... Haven't checked them all for OAL - need to.

It seems the shoulder is not setting back far enough for proper headspace in the chamber...

[oscarflytyer]

is the military brass reloadable on the 7.65x53-54? I just sold over 600 rounds of live ammo of that caliber for $50.00 bucks to a friend of mine. I had the ammo for over 20 years never used any. GD

Usually not worth the hassle (IMO) if it is Berdan primed. Pain to remove the primer and then have to find Berdan primers to reload.

[leadman]

When a case is sized if the lower part is larger than the die it will squeeze it down then when you raise the handle the brass will grow in length. Are you lubing the inside of the neck?

It isn't that hard to sand down the shellholder, just make sure you use a figure 8 pattern as this will help keep the top surface flat.

If you still have problems PM me for my address and I will size it in my trim die and full length die and see if that helps.

If you can remove the decapping rod from your die and have a hole that you can get a rod in you can set the case on top of the shellholder and carefully run it in the die a little farther. Then use the rod to knock it out of the die.

Another thought is to have a machine shop take .020" off the bottom of the die. Or you can try to do it with a large file or flat piece of metal and some ermery paper. Just turn the die so you keep it flat.

[gandydancer]

Thanks OFT I dident think it was and it is BD primed

[Larry Gibson]

Larry

Press handle to the top of the stroke, screw die in to touch the die, drop ram, screw in the die 1/8 turn. The ram comes up and cams over at full stroke.

I thought maybe the necks/cases were too long and not allowing chambering. BUt measured some and they are barely over trim to length... Haven't checked them all for OAL - need to.

It seems the shoulder is not setting back far enough for proper headspace in the chamber...

If the oal is ok then the shoulder is probably not getting set back enough as you mention. The older Lee "Belgian" 7.65 dies had the same problem. I've found many Belgian 7.65 chambers to have about .008 - .010" longer headspace than most 7.65 Argentines. The Belgian and Argentine ammuntion both seem to have very close to the same headspace dimensions. Thus if the die specifications are for the "belgian many times sized cases then don't fit in Agentine 7,65s.

You can thin down the shell holder as alredy described. However. I simply removed .010 from the bottom of such dies (have done numerous of them, especially the older Lee dies). that way they work with any appropriate shell holder, not just a "special" one. Not hard to do as I put the FL die in the Lathe and and with it turning slowly lightly surface grind the hardened bottom of the FL die off with a fine grinding stone in a Dremel tool. If you can hold stead enough you can do the job with the dremel too but I generally face of the botoom of the die with a flat carbide cutter. The bevel in the mouth of the die can easily be polished also. Easier to do than to describe doing it.

Larry Gibson

[MUSTANG]

gandydancer and oscarflytyer:


See Larry Gibson's post on converting Berdan Primed Cased to Boxer Primers. It is located at: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show....php?p=1595704


I have about 1500 rounds of MilSurp 7.65 Argentine that I bought from J&G several years ago and have never shot, but are stored away in the home ammo bunker. Figured that I would slowly use it up over time because of difficulty/expense in buying replacement. I have about 50 rounds of the once fired Berdan primed Argentine 7.65 Mauser brass that I will now use his process to convert sometime in the next couple of months. If successful in converting, it will be time to get the Argentine Mausers out of the back of the safe and start shooting them more. Should provide lots of cast boolit shooting after conversion.

[Char-Gar]

I guess this is pretty trivial and only a matter of word choice, but if I didn't know how to adjust a FL sizing die, the term "cam over" would not be helpful. We use that allot here and I am not certain that is useful to many folks.

The issue is that all presses have tolerances in all of the pins and links and in order for a FL size die to be adjusted propertly the slack of the linkage must be removed.

This is done as discribed. The die is adjusted down to contact the top of the shell holder far enough for their to be a noticable resistance before the ram begins it's down travel. If you adjust the die to hard down, the ram won't go down. You just need a "snap" between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die to remove the slack.

Again...Just a matter or words, but "cam over" would not be helpful for me and pershaps for others as well. I guess it is some kind of technical/mechanical term of which I am not familiar.

[budman46]

someone mentioned a forster case trimmer...even 4mm is a lot to trim with the hand-cranked version; i like lee's fixed-length, caliber-specific trimmer set-up with the large wooden ball on the cutter and a battery-powered drill on the shell holder assembly. no set-up and fast.

budman

ignorance is fixable...

[Larry Gibson]

Forster makes an attacment (very reasonbly priced) that replaces the handle and you can use an electric screw driver (best) or a smaller variable speed hand drill. THAT makes the trimming go very quick and easy.

Larry Gibson