mosin nagant

[fgd135]

I bet you could chamber and shoot standard 308 win all day long in a good Mosin....

That is CRAZY talk! You could blow yourself up, and maybe a bystander or two.
I would never ever substitute 308 Win or 7.62x51 for 7.62x54r, regardless of case dimensions. It is incredibly irresponsible to even suggest it.

The Proof load for Mosin Nagants was 3600 atmospheres, about 53,000 PSI. Military FMJ loads were about 43,000 psi. (Finnish M39 data)

The proof load for the 7.62 NATO is rated at 67,500 +- 2500 PSI average
The Average Pressure for M80 ball is 50,000 PSI. This approaches MN PROOF load data.

The SAAMI Maximum Average pressure for the .308 Winchester is 62,000 PSI. This EXCEEDS MN PROOF LOADS!
.308 Win Min Proof 83,000 PSI, Maximum Proof 89,000 PSI.

.308 win Data from ANSI/SAAMI document Z299.4-1992 Pressure and Velocity, Centerfire Sporting ammunition

[home in oz]

Saw a Mosin rifle for $250 this week in a local pawn shop.

SKSs were $350 each.

[daviddoo]

I got my Mosin hex in March for $110. Sounds like some of the shops are way out of line.

[Larry Gibson]

fgd135

A lot of "apples" and "oranges" in those figures comparing older CUP obtained psi vs more updated and accepted peizo transducer obtained psi's.

"The SAAMI Maximum Average pressure for the .308 Winchester is 62,000 PSI. "

That is the maximum allowable SAAMI MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) for the .308W using peizo- tranducer measurement. Many think, erroneously, that factory .308W ammuntion is actually loaded to that level. It is not. Most all of .308W factory ammuntion is usually somewhat below that figure. I've been measuring the psi (Oehler M43) of .308W and 7.62 NATO for a couple years now. I've yet to find any .308W commercial ammuntion that exceeds 60,000 psi with most in the 55 - 58,000 psi range. Most 7.62 NATO ammuntion loaded to actual NATO specs usually over laps the psi's of commercial factory .308W ammuntion.

I concur that shooting 7.62 NATO or .308W in a MN chambered for 7.62x54 is "crazy".

Larry Gibson

[1Shirt]

Somebody ought to turn him into the BBB!
1Shirt!

[30calflash]

I had a co worker do the same thing years ago. He asked for a round of 308, fired it over the weekend and showed me the fired case on Monday. Bulged quite a bit as mentioned in an earlier post. I told him not to do it again, and ARGUED with him about it for a time. When I brought in an unfired 308 the next day and compared them he agreed that 'it didn't look right' and would look into it further.
It shows that the 100% safety factor worked in this instance, may not in others. If you don't know what it's chambered for bring it to someone who will find out before you fire it.

[1Shirt]

30Calflash! Suggest you don't go to the range with your coworker!
1Shirt!

[JIMinPHX]

As was already said, the going price on a MN in good shape is more like $100, not $300. Also, putting an ill-fitting 52,000CUP SAAMI spec cartridge into a chamber that was designed for a 43,000PSI cartridge is not a good idea. If that guy told you that he shot a spectacular group with .308" bullets out of a .313"(if you're lucky) barrel, then he is probably a liar as well as a cheat.

The .38 super to 9-largo thing may have a shred of truth to it, but I wouldn't trust what that guy says. The 9-Largo is pretty close in dimension to the .38 Super. Many of the worn out 9-largo chambers will accept a .38-Super cartridge, especially if you do a little grinding. Some people have intentionally modified their 9-Largo pistols to accept the .38 Super cartridge. Most people who made that modification shoot the .38acp, which is the lower pressure version of the .38 Super. I would not shoot a .38 Super in a 9-largo chamber.

Some 9-Largo pistols, like the Star, are a locked breach design, similar to a 1911 & will take a fair amount of pressure. Others, like the Astra, are straight blow back designs & do not handle high pressures well at all. In fact, much of the 9-Largo surplus ammo in the market is too hot for the Astras, which is why most of them have cracked frames. For a while, there was a company that made replacement barrels for the Star that were properly chambered for the .38 Super, but they stopped making them a few years ago.

Star Line brass in 9-Largo is available from Midway again. I would recommend getting some of that & loading up ammo that is in the proper pressure range for the gun in question.

You can still find surplus ammo in that caliber if you look, but it isn't very common. Dillon had it for a while. Miwall sometimes has it. Sarco had a boatload of it the last time that I checked, which was a few years ago. I stay away from the surplus stuff because it is corrosive. That corrosive Berdan-primed stuff is why most of the 9-Largo barrels look like a sewer pipe.

It's too bad that the surplus Santa-Barbra ammo is Berdan primed, because other than that, it is some of the nicest brass that I have ever worked with. I managed to convert about 50 pieces to take a boxer primer & that's what I've been shooting with ever since. I'll be ordering some Star Line brass, now that it's available again.

[JIMinPHX]

Sarco now has both corrosive & non-corrosive 9-Largo ammo in stock. This is from one of their recent SG News ads. -


9mm LARGO Ammo
(9x23mm)
For many Star 9mms, Astra 400 Auto, Campo
Giro, 1910 Bergman, Llama Pistols, & The
Destroyer Bolt Action Carbine, and many sub
machine guns. This is the cartridge for the Star
model Super handgun we sell. Available in corrosive
& non Corrosive rounds.
Corrosive AM006 –
$19.95/100 rds, $44.95/250 rds
$159.95/1000 rds (case)
Non Corrosive AM022
$29.95/100 rds, $67.50/250 rds
$249.50/1000 rds,
$475.00/2000 rds (1 case)
Call Cholly for large quantity prices

[Phat Man Mike]

I'd only pay 300. for a finn mosin .. you can still buy them at gun shows for 100.00 around here. if it was a M-38 it might cost a bit more. BWDIK

[Three44s]

My M38 set me back $89 ........... about three years ago. All my others cost under that!

The allure with the Mosin for many is CHEAP ammo ............ it's certainly not as plentiful as it once was nor as cheap but in any case ............ .308 is more expensive!

Why spend more money to hazzard blowing your head off? Hell, you can step in front of a train for free!

(Last night, I loaded up some Lee 180's ahead of a modest charge of powder with some filler .........

.............. I saved money and I doubt they will stress out my Mosins!)

Three 44s

[xfoxofshogo]

While visiting with family this past weekend,my brother took me to a pawn shop that he does business with.This guy sell's mosin's for $300.He also showed me a 3 ring binder with 2 bullet holes,touching,so close they could be one.He told me that was from chambering and firing a 308 win in a mosin at 100 yards.Well I told him he was full of dog poo,he got mad and I left.This same guy a few weeks ago, sold my brother a pistol chambered for the 9mm Largo,then sold him a box of 38 super's to shoot.Told him it would be good.I told brother to not shoot them it was not a good idea.This character seems to have the impression that,if it will fit,it will shoot.Now I have never tried the 308 in a Mosin,and I don't have very much experience with the 9mm Largo.Any thought's or input on this?

ther are some 308 m44 out ther thay mod them look the sam but use 308 ammo and the .308 fits a good bore the 7.62x54r is .310 or 311 if i rember right so thay shoot ok

[azcruiser]

Pawn shop buying offer 1/3 what ever their asking .Why shoot 308 when 762x54 is so cheap?
Take a gun into a pawn shop and see what they offer you that will give you an idea of what to pay .

[xfoxofshogo]

the 308 is reload abale the 7.62x54r is a pane in the ass to reload if you oliny find steel or berdin prim case.
308 is boxer you buy ever where.
and to swich it over to 308 not hard you cut a bout a 1/4 to 1/8 of the thred chamber and use a 308 rem on it then buy a bolt fase for the 308 thay make a kit or ues to i took one to a gun shop one time and thay toold me it be 150 to swich it over

and i shot a 308 one be for man thay are a nice gun some buy new bars but thay can get pricey but thay shoot realy good

and the reson for selling to a pawn shop is thay will buy and give you cash gun shops do not rely whant to buy just sell and thay what it in grate looking a pawn shop not so much and gun shops do i will not buy it but i will sell it for you for 10% or 20% that way the make mony off the paper work and ammo you buy win you buy a new gun and all the outher **** thay can sell you

a m44 here i can pick up for 125 in realy grate shape and a lot of them have new parts on them its a chep gun that shoot good and will last you for ever

[adrians]

a buddy of mine was a victim of bad advice at a gun show.
he bought a spanish mod 1916 what he was told by the seller that it was still 7x57 cal (he isn't very informed about rifle cal's) being told this by a seller of a weapon at a gun show he took it as the truth,,,, he was then talked into by the seller into buying 100 rounds of 7mm ammo.
he came over to my house to show me his prize and a good looking rifle it is ,that being said i had to sadly inform him that it was chambered for the 7.62 , not full powered 308 and NOT the 7x57 so now he's left with ammo he can't use and mistrust for firearm sellers at gun shows.

[MilSurpFan]

There are plenty of Mosins legitimately in the 300+ range such as Finn-modified rifles, various rarities and even target rifles. Doubt that is what the shop is selling though. Sounds like a good place to avoid.

Never forget that the existence of "average" intelligence means you'll find a lot of people significantly below that line.

[xfoxofshogo]

i tri and give them 75 bucks for it lol if it was in a shop here

pawn shops hate me i walk in and aks if thay take 75 or 100 bucks for guns thay whant 500 or a 1000 on lol the guns thay buy are junk half the time

[Link23]

man i got my Tikka M91 for 120 bucks in mint condition ( still had arsenal tag on it) and it shoots like a DREAM!! i would never shoot anything other than my hand loads out of it

and i shoot a .308 Ja*$%#$)ed bullet out of and and can hit a fly at 200 yards

Link23

[1Shirt]

Must be a big fly!
1Shirt!

[wills]

While visiting with family this past weekend,my brother took me to a pawn shop that he does business with.This guy sell's mosin's for $300.He also showed me a 3 ring binder with 2 bullet holes,touching,so close they could be one.He told me that was from chambering and firing a 308 win in a mosin at 100 yards.Well I told him he was full of dog poo,he got mad and I left.This same guy a few weeks ago, sold my brother a pistol chambered for the 9mm Largo,then sold him a box of 38 super's to shoot.Told him it would be good.I told brother to not shoot them it was not a good idea.This character seems to have the impression that,if it will fit,it will shoot.Now I have never tried the 308 in a Mosin,and I don't have very much experience with the 9mm Largo.Any thought's or input on this?

Seems a little pricy. What would you expect from someone who gets that much for a Mosin?