Recipes for "Mouse Fart" Loads in 30-06

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Originally Posted by StratsMan

These sound too fun to miss out on, but I'm scratchin' my head about accuracy....

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This being my first foray into light loads I can't offer much. Not being able to get a good sight picture sure wasn't helping any but I was getting 2.5" at 25. I think that good share of that was my inability to see anything but a vague shape where the (white) front bead was. I would love to get a side mount so I could hang a scope on the 94 just for working up loads but I'm too cheap to buy one just for this use.

I'm thinking (maybe hoping) that, with good sights, I could hold an inch a 25. My whole goal is for minute of can at plinking distances. I'm not far off that right now so I'm pretty content with my results so far.

I think I'm going to try a fiber optic front sight or maybe a Lyman 17a with an aperture insert. I thought I had a 17a around here somewhere, I sorta halfway remember that either I tried one, or one of the other shooters had one, on a silhouette gun years ago.

While I was typing that last part I got a wild hair idea and called my son to see if he remembered the 17a being here. He knew we had one, no idea where though. While on the phone with him I was pawing through our "catch-all" cabinet and VOILA!! A 17a the right height for the 94. It even has an aperture insert, a bit too small one but usable for now. It's going to be interesting to find out if the double aperture works better with my aging eyes.

I know the whole process is inevitable but I sure do hate losing the edge on my vision. It really bothers me to sound like a doddering old fart, "When I was younger I used to be able to do yadda, yadda, yadda,,,,,"

Welcome to the "old farts" club [smilie=l:.

When I was young, and in my prime
I used to do it all the time
Now that I am old and gray
I only do it twice a day

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Originally Posted by RU shooter

5-6 grains of Bullseye and the 311440 is what I would use. I get good accuracy out to 100 yds using it and the 155 gr lee bullet

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+1 Bullseye or other fast " not position sensitive powders" work. I shot skeet for a while and used 700x that was handy the same way.

I'd start with 10 grains of Red Dot or Promo and work *backwards* until I found a load I liked.

anyone thought about titewad?
fast shotgun powder...

I just finished shooting a box of fifty aught six rounds in the 1903A3 . Bullet was a H&G number sixy-seven , sized at .312" with both grooves full of Alox . Large rifle primer and four point seven grains of Bullseye .

I had a B-3 target set up at thirty five yards and benched the rilfe for thirty shots . the group could be covered with a half dollar and I don't mean a paper one torn in half . If the light was right , you could see the base of the bullet in flight very briefly . The rest of the ammo was used to break up dirt clods and other dangerous things at the range .

What a great way to use up leftover bullets [smilie=l:

Jack

When I had my 35 whelen I did alot of experimenting with mouse fart and other reduced loads with pistol bullets. What I found in the whelen is that I could get excellent accuracy with unique at 1200-1700 fps, but when I reduced the loads to the point that the velocity was in the 700-800 fps range, the velocity was swinging over 100 fps for a 5 shot string. I just don't like those sorts of swings, nor did I want to resort to using a filler to hold the powder over the primer.

I did try some true can sneeze loads using unique with a wad of toilet paper to hold it in place. I used a progressively cut down 22 short case as a dipper. I got to the point that instead of a cap gun report I'd get a ping, and the bullet wasn't leaving the barrel. At cap gun report levels a 148 gr hbwc with the hollow base loaded as a massive hollow point at point blank range would penetrate 1/2 way through a phone book and turned itself almost inside out. I never tried those loads for accuracy or velocity, it was more or an experiment in how low can you go.

Anyhow, for true cat sneeze loads I'd go with bullseye, it's easier to ignite, and since it burns the fastest of them all, it will have the lowest pressure when the bullet leaves the barrel, and hence the mildest report.

Hmm, maybe I should try some 105 gr lee's ouf the 350 rem mag :D

The Lee 311-93-RN that I have been experimenting with seems to have a tendency to produce a large percentage of not-quite-boolits. I haven't isolated just what the mold prefers, some sessions come out real good, others just so-so. Not that they are real bad, the greatest part are more than adequate for the intended, plinking purpose.

I sorted the results of the last session and ended up with 98 boolits with no visible defects. Today I weighed those and had 2 that came in seriously light but the rest were surprisingly uniform. Eight were strays at the opposite ends of the weight range but 88 were clumped into a 1.1 grain total spread with the mid point being right around 93.4 grains. Most of them landed between 93.2 and 93.6grs.

I'm going to work on accuracy with those just top see what they will do. I just put a Lyman 17a front sight on my 94 and will be using an aperture in that to (hopefully) help my old eyes out on the target.

I was just reading an old Handloader article about patching with teflon tape. I'm going to try a few that way as well. No idea what I will find with that but getting there is going to be most of the fun anyhow.

Where can I read Paco Kelly's "Silent But Deadly" online? Please post email address.

Mr. Gibson,

I have access to some Haendler & Natermann .32 caliber .314 diameter 100 grn WC bullets. I would like to load these in a 30-06 case. Do I push the WC into the neck till it's seated to the neck and shoulder junction or seated out to engage the rifling? Will a charge of 2.7grn BE be a good starting load? I'm looking for a quiet load more than a load with velocity.

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Originally Posted by Alan in Vermont

Buddy of mine wants to play with low noise/velocity loads in a pre-64 M-70. The only boolits available to us right now are 311440s and (when it arrives) the Lee 311-93-RN.

Anybody got proven suggestions for such things?

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I haven't read the entire forum, so forgive me if someone has beat me to this, but you might want to peruse the 'Favorite Reduced Loads' discussion in the 'Stickies' forum. There are loads that run the gamut from gnat nappers to rodent ruiners. Lots of good info for lots of guns.

My "mouse fart" load sounds like a 38 special WC load. I used a .314 WC sized down to .311, sized the neck to .311 with a Lyman neck die, seated bullet to neck shoulder junction w/ slight crimp so round would chamber, drilled out the primer hole with a #29 bit. This round was shot in a 1903A3 30-06 and lubed with LLA.

Any comments appreciated as to why this loading is more like a "bull fart" than a "mouse fart" load.

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Originally Posted by Oshiro708

My "mouse fart" load sounds like a 38 special WC load. I used a .314 WC sized down to .311, sized the neck to .311 with a Lyman neck die, seated bullet to neck shoulder junction w/ slight crimp so round would chamber, drilled out the primer hole with a #29 bit. This round was shot in a 1903A3 30-06 and lubed with LLA.

Any comments appreciated as to why this loading is more like a "bull fart" than a "mouse fart" load.

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All the noise in a load like this is due to residual pressure behind the bullet when it leaves the bore; to make it quieter, you need to reduce that residual pressure. You can reduce your powder load some, or you can reduce your powder a lot and use a faster powder. The fastest powder out there will give the quietest report, because it'll all be burned and the bullet actually decelerating when it leaves the bore. Try one of the Bullseye loads from back up this thread a bit; get that bullet down to 800 or so fps over Bullseye and you'll probably find it sounds like a top end air rifle.

For an fyi, I decided to give bullseye a try in my 350 rem mag. A 22 short case used as a dipper drops ~2gr of bullseye. With that charge and a 1/4 sheet of tp to keep the powder in place I was able to drive a 148gr wadcutter, and a 160gr hp through 3/4" pine and put a healthy dent in a 3/4" piced of plywood behind it. Report was somewhere North of a cap gun, and South of a fire cracker. I didn't do any accuracy testing, I was just seeing if it would get the bullets out of the barrel, report and penetration.

I'll try some more tests to see how low I can go with powder charges before sticking a bullet, then I'll do some accuracy testing.

Great thread, glad I stumbled on it. I've been using 7 grains of Red Dot under a commercial cast 160 grain bevel base and it'll group inside of two inches at 70 yards. When all those are gone, I might give the Lee 31193 six banger a go and work it down to 700 fps or so which is where I seem to find mouse fart nirvana...

I've been thinking the (relatively) poor grouping was due to my part of the shooter/gun interface. The last time I put anything on paper I was getting 2½" at 25 yds. Those were 93 gr. Lee over 3.5 BE.

I had some other loads with me, 311440s over 19/4759 and wondered just what they would group and where they hit relative to the light loads.

SURPRISE!! Four went into one hole with one out about 3/4". I figured that was a fluke so I shot five more and got four touching with one out enough to stay within an inch again. So, maybe it's not my eyes after all.

Now I'm going to go back to lighter charges and work up with the emphasis on accuracy.

Also had the opportunity to chronograph the 93s over 3.0 and 3.5 BE as well as the 311440/19/4759 combo.

Lee 93/3.0/BE 862 fps with a spread of 49 fps.

Lee 93/3.5/BE, 967 fps, 89 fps spread

311440/19/4759 1390 av with spread of 53 fps.

It was gray and gloomy with a bitter wind gusting out of the northwest. Miserable enough conditions that I never considered trying to shoot groups.

We just had a truly gorgeous spell of weather, probably the last sunny, comfortably warm, calm days we will have for several months. Forecast is a bit vague but maybe a day or two next week that might be decent shooting conditions. I'm going to load a bunch of various charges and if the weather permits get them on paper to see if there are any trends as the charge changes. I'm also going to try match weighing some of the 311440s to see if there are wild weight changes that might account for the flyers with that load. If I could get rid of those flyers that would mean dime size groups which is nothing to sneeze at.

well you got me hooked. tried some loads yesterday cant stop grinning. wish i could still get herters primers for .35 cents a 100 . looks like its going to be a interesting,fun erpensive winter. thanks for all the good info.

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Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

I'd go with 3.2 gr Bullseye under that 93 gr Lee bullet. Tumle lightly in LLA and size at .311. A .31 cal M die will work a bit better than the .30 M die for the PB'd smallish .311 sized bullets.

Larry Gibson

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+1
I've used 8.0 grains of Herco under a 311-245 95 grain round nose. Accuracy definitely improved when I went to the larger expander die. I wish Lyman still sold the expander bolt seperately. It would be a blessing.

rintinglen-

Call the nice Lady at Lyman-

I have ordered them in the past !

You’ll want the 'expanding plug complete', don’t forget the locknut…you can locktite or super glue the lock nut to the threaded stem once set up.