Just tried the stainless steel wet rotary tumbling method. 2 hours from very dirty to brand new looking brass inside and out. Amazing. All the stories are true. I used the Lortone tumbler, not the Thumlers. I can't say if it is better but I heard some people thought it was a better system I used the 12QT Lortone. Cleans about 160 .223 cases at a time. The photos at the top of the forum home page are legit. Exactly what I ended up with. I'm sold.