Iirc the 311284 was designed by John Barlow specifically for .30-40 Krag
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Iirc the 311284 was designed by John Barlow specifically for .30-40 Krag
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It was Walter Hudson during his 1904-05 series of developments that resulted in the 308284. One of his early failures was the 308223 200 grain. The long nose rattled around under the rifling during its course through the bore. I've got an old Ideal mold for that one. It didn't take long to discover that it printed all over the target. 308284 is and was the best of them.
I tried to find a copy of the article online. My "Googlefu" was a no go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krag1902
Please tell Mr. Foral I said hello. :)
Since we are kind of on the subject, "My Cast Bullet Krag Plinker " was in HANDLOADER'S Digest 1997. I have done some stuff on Walter Hudson, most notably "Walter Hudson Krag Specialist" in Gun Digest 2008, and "The Hudson-Krag Handloads" Gun Digest 2004.
The min. (or "trim to") length of the .30-40 Krag cartridge case is 2.304-inches, with a max. case length of 2.314-inches. I am assuming the stated loaded overall length of 2.060-inches to be a typo. Perhaps 3.060-inches was the intended o.a.l.?Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejack
Jim
Jim
I stand corrected. You are correct. I will edit and correct. Thank you.
I have 2 30-40 Krags and they both like this load: Boolits made from the Lee C309-200-1r which weigh about 195gr. I powder coat them and install gas checks and size them to .311. The older 30-40 barrels typically like larger boolits. I use 40gr. I4831 and my OAL is 3.025". I wanted to find a powder that I could use 40grains of and get good results (for obvious reasons) and it turns out 40gr. of I4831 is perfect. Velocities average 1830fps.
Attachment 326015
Attachment 326016
300:
What is your alloy, and do you know what the bhn is? The bhn on my cast boolits run 12-13. I powder coated and shot some a few days ago. The bore looked good, with no fouling. They performed as good as the greasers I use. I'm going to chronograph a few this coming week. I'm thinking these will be flying along around 1500 fps, +/-. I like the fact that these powder coated are much cleaner to handle.
I use a 50/50 mix of pure lead and linotype. BHN is typically right around 18-19.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejack
Thank you.
I've been messing with Krags since I was 16, 55 years ago. Bought my first one, a righteous 1896 Carbine for the grand sum of $40 that year. Not a year has gone by since then that I haven't had at least one Krag floating around. Currently it's two, a Sedgley sporter (with Redfield No-Drill receiver sight) and what I would suspect is a Griffin&Howe sporter (with Lyman 48 receiver sight) but for the fact there's nothing written on the gun to confirm that.
Although other cast bullets can shoot better, the one bullet I turn to with expectations of universally decent performance is Lyman's 311284 - if it fits the particular throat and bore diameter. Given Lyman/Ideal's notoriety for playing fast and loose with mold dimensions (especially in the past) plus Springfield Armory's inability to hold tolerances in barrel making during the first 8-9 years of the Krag, it can be difficult finding a good match. The long bore-riding nose is a huge benefit, if it actually fits, and throat dimensions were all over the map too for determining driving/base band diameters.
Over the years I've accumulated six 311284 molds and no two are exactly the same, which is good because all my Krags varied from .309" to .313" throat diameters and bore (land) diameters have varied from .299 to .302". Hit the right combo of throat and bore fit and a Krag will sing with that bullet. But really there's nothing particularly magical about the design, any good .30 cast bullet that fits properly will perform in a Krag - I simply like it because it looks right sticking out of a Krag case! (Well, that plus having many years ago read Dr. Hudson's book "Modern Rifle Shooting: From the American Standpoint, 1903. It should be required reading by anybody who's serious about Krag shooting!)
Favorite full charge 311284 load: 34.0gr. Varget (but be careful, that's starting to dance right close to max allowable in a Krag).
Favorite midrange load: a 180 GC RN mold Walt Melander (NEI) made for me 40 years ago + 16.0gr. 4759 (yeah, I still have an indecent supply of that powder).
Favorite backyard beer can destroyer load: Lyman/Ideal 311241 155gr. PB RN + 6.0gr. Red Dot.
Another fun one is a .30 roundball made with my 1895 dated Frankford Arsenal mold + 4-5 gr. Bullseye. (Especially if loaded using the period correct Frankford Arsenal de-recapper.) Thumb seated in an unsized case neck and smeared with 50/50 lube - essentially how the mold was intended to be used by Army regulars and state troops for cheap gallery practice with their service rifles.
https://i.imgur.com/jnQRlUpl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AxNMJJYl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mS8b9idl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nVdPMcrl.jpg
To the OP: you stated that your front sight tends to get lost in the bullseye? If so, I assume you're trying to hold for the center? Have you tried a good old simple 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the bull? I thought all us old farts used that hold in order to stay in the iron sight game! Lay your case out to your optometrist for advise too - it's why you pay them the big bucks!
The 311284 and 4198 shot best in in my Krag. Looks like it's good in your rifle too OP. I was always going to work up to a case full of WC860 but never got around to it.
I'll second the six o'clock hold necessity for aging eyes. It keeps me in the game. It may be just a preference but I require a flat top post front sight that does not overlay more than four inches or so at a hundred. Perch the bull on top of that and watch the small groups form. Last month I got a new Krag sporter with a bead front sight. I used a bit of epoxy to form straight sides and filed the bead's round top flat. The dovetail was an odd size so it wasn't a simple replacement. So Krag #6 and I are back in the business of shooting small CB hundred yard groups with 74 year old eyes.
My 311284 mould drops out of round and undersize boolits. It would be nice if Lyman DID take more pride In their bullet mould tolerances. I've had problems with their moulds ever since I started casting back in 1970. I've heard countless complaints about their moulds. Apparently they are satisfied with mediocre products. I slugged my Krag bore, and with my digital calipers it reads .3095. I know the calipers are not as accurate as micrometers, but that's what I use.
I will give the 6 o:clock gold on my next outing and see if my eyes like that better. We do realize that we are not shooting target grade rifles, right! At darn near three quarters of a century old eyes, I've been pretty impressed with the groups this rifle has shot.
Went back out to the range yesterday to check velocities on my 30-40 loads. It rained off and on yesterday, but I managed to set up and shoot my 10 shot string while the sun popped through. I was using the Pro-Chrono DLX. These loads consisted of:
19 grains of IMR 4198.
Lyman 311284 with gas check, sized to .310.
Once thru powder coat cycle.
Sized, new Graff cases were used.
Barrel length is 25".
Results:
1409
1404
1418
1414
1427
1389
1433
1422
1413
1408
Hi: 1433
Lo: 1389
Av: 1413
Es: 44
SD: 11
I'm sure fireforming the new cases had a lot
to do with the inconsistent velocities. I will reload and go out again and see how they shoot with fireformed cases. Oh yeah. I really like the powder coating. There was no leading in the bore, and didn't have to contend with the sticky boolits and smoke.
Good shooting to all.
my rifle is a "Bannerman Special" that my great grandfather bought sometime in the 1920s. then my grandfather, Dad (RIP), late uncle and finally me. when i'm gone, it will go to my oldest son. sometime in the '60s, my grandfather had a Bishop stock put on, which i hate. when he died, my dad, his neighbor and me were cleaning up grandfather's house and his neighbor noticed a stock in the rafters of the basement and it was the original cut down stock. later on, it was black and dusty that i refinished it. i use a 173gr Ranch Dog (COWW plus a skosh of tin) and H4198 that will go 1 1/2 - 2" at 100 yards (5 shots/bench). it did do 3/4" group at 100 yards once and only once. the Shooting Gods smiled at me or the Krag did the group just to show me what it can do. oh, 8 or 9 years ago, i have bought from eshay a 102K Redfield aperture (boy was it cheap, $40) sight because i couldn't see rear sight.
https://i.imgur.com/cBi4FhJ.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/PyhUcRt.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7BTwpwD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/drGMr1t.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DVr4IEx.jpg
7 - 10 are 173gr RD with H4198 going 1926fps, 1 - 6 are spotters, 100 yards, bench
https://i.imgur.com/LG8vMD3.jpg
left and right arrows 173gr RD
https://i.imgur.com/4pV0D7p.jpg?1
i have shot 10 or 11 deer with it. my oldest son has shot 6 or 7 deer with the Krag. the longest deer shot by the Krag is my oldest son's 173 yards (laser range finder thingy) on a doe. it beats my record of 125+/- yards. most of the deer i shot are 30-40 yards away.
i bought a rusted old Krag that i cleaned up and i got 2 Krag actions without the bolt.
Love the story of that rifle. Good shooting.
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That's a fine lookin Krag. Nice group as well. I'm really enjoying mine. Thanks for posting, and the story.
I went to a couple estate sales yesterday. There was a few reloading tools and componants, but non that I needed. But, there was 2 full bottles of H380 marked 5.00 each. The original store sticker was 37.00. Although I've never used that particular powder, it's never to late to start, especially at that price. I see there is some load data for the 30-40 Krag. Gonna give it a try for some higher velocity loads.