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Hi all,
I am making a wildcat by necking down and shortening .22PPC TO .17, shortened .150 with a 40 degree Ackley Improved shoulder. I also need the neck turned to .012.
My question is do you turn the case neck down after fireforming or before?
This is new territory for me and a new "toy" for my retirement.
Any and all input is welcome.
Thanks,
Blkpwdrbuff
You may not have an option. Depending on your chamber the sized down pushed back neck may not chamber without turning first.
In making 17 rem fireball from 223, I size to 221 fireball as intermediate step, then turn necks prior to sizing to 17 caliber. (I don't have a 17 neck turner). It also keeps a donut out of the neck.
I use the Hornady neck turner.
I've recently been working on a 358 AR Project and most of my brass has to be neck turned before it will chamber at all.
I'd take a chamber cast and compare measurements next to your newly formed cases.
Also make up a dummy round and measure it also.
That should tell you if it will fit, or need turned first.
Before. See post #2
You want to know the neck dia of your chamber so you know what loaded round dia is safe. My 243 is tight necked at .268 the loaded round dia is turned to be .266. for an idea. to tight a fit and the case cant expand to release the bullet upping pressures. Form the cases then neck turn as needed. If you have the material neck ream and turn both.I have one wild cat thats a sized down 300 wsm shortened and necked down to 6.5mm on it I remove most of the thickened neck with a reamer in a die then neck turn to loaded round dia. The reamer removes the metal faster and trues the inside surface of the neck then the outside turn trues the out side to the inside. You may want to anneal after forming to soften the brass back up. You want your turning pilot .0001-.0002 bigger than the necks. A set up to expand on the turners mandrell works very well.
Blkpwdr--- probably 15+ years I did pretty much the same case. I ran the 17 PPC Imp in .175 short. At the time Blake Stevens made the 17 Lil. Nasty. I made one also, it was one of the most accurate 17 I had. Blakes used the 30* shoulder and I like the 40* shoulder so ordered the 17 PPC Imp reamer to make my case. I used Neil Jones bushing to move the shoulder back. Neils bushing are 30* so you need to blow out the case. My necks are around .012 also. I had to neck turn before fire forming, the necks were way too thick. I'd recommend neck turning at the 17 dia. I once had a case where I moved the shoulder of the 223 case back to an OAL of 1.250. I neck turned at, I believe, the 22 cal stage and then finished forming to 17 cal. Using pin gages there wasn't any donuts but when blowing out the case in fire forming, I made a lot of cute little funnels. The neck turning step was in the middle of the finish shoulder. Many of the necks snapped off when blew out to 40*. A lot of wasted time made in forming brass. My full length 17 PPC Imp didn't shoot as good as the shorter version. Your version should hold 1 to 2 grs more than my .175 short. Good luck, you'll enjoy it. I believe the only source of custom 17 cal dies is Hornady and Neil Jones which are great dies plus he can make the forming bushing. A set up from him will make the forming job much easier.
Measure the chamber neck ID. It's the very first thing I do to ALL new rigs coming in here. This gets written down at the top of the header page of each rigs pamphlet style load journal.
Typically,I use 1/2 ball, small hole gages. They're mounted to appropriately sized aluminum arrows....which can be swaged if necessary. Very easy to do. Once you have that reference.... now shoot for whatever final case to neck clearance that you want to run. Good luck with your project.
rayh,
Check your PM's
Blkpwdrbuff
rayh,
Check your PM's
Blkpwdrbuff
Merrill I just sent you note.
One thing you need to watch out for when neck turning is that you arnt "undercutting the neck shoulder junction.A shrp pointed cutter that isnt a match to the shoulder or close will thin that junction weakening it. Its a fine line between leaving a donut and to much.Have sectioned several cases that showed this thinning undercut. Your only working with .012 thick brass so even a step into it.004-.005 really weakens that sharp corner.
You're right about a heavy cut into the shoulder. I had Ken (K&M) make me several cutters just for the 40* shoulder to prevent the under cut. Because I had moved the shoulder back into the body where the brass was thick, most any cut (in my case it ended up mid way up the shoulder) was too much when the new shoulder was blew out. On heavy cuts now, I use 2 turners, one set up to remove the bulk of the neck wall and the 2nd to finish (cleans) up the neck. K&M has a cutter that removes the donut(mostly). Pin gauges are a nice thing to have when checking for donuts.
No one has mentioned an expander mandrel, I don't know if neck turners other than K&M use them but with the K&M they are essential to make sure the mandrel on the turner is very close to the ID of the case to be turned.
ebb you're right, guess I was thinking everyone would buy the expander and turning mandrel with the neck turning tool so it functions correctly.